Recognition stars

Colin R · #1 09-01-06, 01:20

Does anyone have info or pics on the location of the recognition stars on 12 cabs used by the British forces? Would they have had one on the bonnet as the roof was removable, or did they bother having one for aerial observation at all?

cliff · #2 09-01-06, 02:48

It depended in what thertre the vehicle is/was. The recognition symbol (often an RAF type roundel) was placed on the largest permanent upward facing panel.

Now you also say the roof was removeable. Do you mean in a soft top-canvas roof or the normal non removable even if bolted on way? If the later the recognition symbol was there above the driver and clear of the MG access hole if there was one.

Cheers
Cliff

I think the US white star was only used in North West Europe.
there is another thread on this subject here on this site...
http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...&threadid=4760

Colin R · #3 09-01-06, 20:30

Thanks Cliff, yes I was talking about the bolted on roof but it can be detached, thats why I was wondering if they put it on the bonnet/hood instead?
I'm aiming the paint set up for post D day, but the majority of pics I've seen have the star, I saw the other topic with the RAF roundel on the vehicle but was this really common place?

Hanno Spoelstra · #4 09-01-06, 21:13

Quote:

Originally posted by Colin R
I'm aiming the paint set up for post D day, but the majority of pics I've seen have the star, I saw the other topic with the RAF roundel on the vehicle but was this really common place?

Colin, see Air recognition roundels on Canadian AFV's. If you're aiming for a post D-Day paint setup, the white star is the correct recognition marking. If you print off Crooked white star, you can show the ignorant bystanders it was an official instruction to paint it on crooked...

H.

Larry Hayward · #5 09-01-06, 23:36

Perhaps someone can say when the white star officially became THE recognition sign for all Allied Forces?

However a look through my collection has shown that for Sicily & Italy at least, the white star hardly ever appears on wheeled & tracked armour used by British & Commonwealth forces, as the red/white/red flash continued to be used - perhaps years after its use was cancelled. Some Shermans had the RAF roundel painted on the rear deck or turret top but most seem to have had none. From photo evidence the white star started to appear more often on British & Commonwealth armour & halftracks in Italy only in late 1944.

For softskins in Italy the RAF roundel was very common on cab roofs above the driver or on the bonnet / hood - as the use of this for air recognition had been in use in North Africa (as had the red/white/red flash on armour). The roundel was occasionally seen on the top of the canvas tilt (which I understand was prohibited).

As Italy was not high priority for new equippment old vehicles retained the RAF roundel well into the campaign and many have both a faded roundel on the hood & a white star on the cab roof or vice versa. Photo evidence shows that for Anzio landings the white star was more commonly used for British softskins than before but the RAF roundel was still used. These white stars at first were painted freehand without a template, so they look very roughly applied.

Colin R · #6 10-01-06, 01:34

This is probably a long shot but would anyone have any pics of vehicles used by the 8th Army primarily the 131st Queens Brigade (or the 131st Lorried Infantry Brigade as it was later known).
I'm only assuming that the Queens brigade used these vehicles during there desert campaigns but if anyone can help with info to back it up It would be appreciated.
But back to the star location, reading through the HQ 2 Cdn Inf Div letter it should be above the driver, would this be the same for all the allied forces?

cletrac (RIP) · #7 10-01-06, 16:52

Colin, if this is for the C8, Canada's Fighting Vehicles 43-45 states that "these vehicles are obsolete and aren't used in any active theatre" so they probably weren't used on D-Day. Weren't they used mostly in the desert and Italy?

Colin R · #8 10-01-06, 17:58

B****r, I new this would happen. I thought that these vehicles might have been used later due to the wireless set up, and assuming that the British forces operated along the same lines as they do now with old kit running along side the newer stuff.
I'll have to sort something out, I don't want to turn it into its previous guise of water bowser!

So calling all fellow MLUers someone find a pic of a wireless C8 in use after D Day in NW Europe or the bunny gets it!

cletrac (RIP) · #9 22-01-07, 03:11

I came across this picture taken in Italy that should clear up where they placed the roundels. These trucks likely came out of North Africa and at least the front one still carries the MP20 camouflage pattern. On the C8 pictures thread the Dodge that's stuck in the mud has the roundel on the canvas of the 1A2 body.

David_Hayward (RIP) · #10 22-01-07, 15:52

I believe that the C8s were amongst the very first CMPs to be demobbed, starting 1944, although they would have gone to official users, such as for mobile canteens, salvage work, etc. and not for civilian sale until possibly early 1945. I suppose the same applied to F8s?

servicepub (RIP) · #11 22-01-07, 16:02

Quote:

Originally posted by cletrac
Colin, if this is for the C8, Canada's Fighting Vehicles 43-45 states that "these vehicles are obsolete and aren't used in any active theatre" so they probably weren't used on D-Day. Weren't they used mostly in the desert and Italy?

According to my research, 8cwt trucks, in the Canadian Army Overseas, were relegated to the CRUs (Canadian Reinforcement Units) as driver training vehicles, run-abouts, etc...

cletrac (RIP) · #12 22-01-07, 16:33

In Canada I'm pretty sure they stayed in service for a while in the reserves after the war even. My C8 is painted khaki, then red, then khaki again so it must have been an airfield crash tender for a while. Gregg mentions that lots of them were used by the reserves in Canada in 1944. As a runabout in Canada they'd be handier than most other models.

Mike Starmer · #13 29-01-07, 22:46

Quote:

Originally posted by cletrac
I came across this picture taken in Italy that should clear up where they placed the roundels. These trucks likely came out of North Africa and at least the front one still carries the MP20 camouflage pattern. On the C8 pictures thread the Dodge that's stuck in the mud has the roundel on the canvas of the 1A2 body.

Not MTP 20 pattern but a wonderful example of the official April 1943 pattern A/184 for use in Sicily and Italy in Light Mud and Black as applicable to 3 ton lorries of all types. Great picture thanks.