Spare Magazine Case

Jordan Baker · #1 28-01-07, 01:36

Im trying to find information on what the case looked like for the Bren spare magazine holder.

The part that I have is TL 12994 Case - spare magazine. See the picture below. The parts listing also list's a stiffener TL/CTL 12996. From a bit left on a surviving example it looks to be really thin plywood.

So far I have found only one photo that shows the case but the detail is not good enough to replicate one. Also would the case have held one or two Bren mags?

Any help is much appreciated.

Jordan Baker · #2 28-01-07, 01:41

This is all the I have to go on in terms of the fabric and wood remains.

Jordan Baker · #3 29-01-07, 03:30

So far I have only found one photo showing this case. I think this is more due to the fact that there are not too many pictures out there showing the insides of the carriers.

If anyone has some please post them up.

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #4 29-01-07, 13:45

I'll get some pictures and details shortly.

Some thoughts. It fits two Bren mags but is too wide and not thick enough to really work. I'd love to see how a Boys mag slides in. For the record: it mounts upside-down (opening to the bottom), the snap is steel and the canvas is two layers thick. PM for details or higher resolution scans.

Jordan Baker · #5 03-02-07, 00:59

Bruce thanks for the pictures. They help out a lot.

I would hazard a guess that it only held one magazine. I can't see it holding two if it opens from the bottom. Just think, if the gunner has to hold onto the Bren and then open up the case and pull out one magazine while keeping the other inside and all this with the carrier moving over rough terrain.

Brad Mills · #6 03-02-07, 02:14

Jordan,

mounts upside down? That pouch isn't for the Bren brass catcher by chance is it?

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #7 03-02-07, 15:27

The Brass catching bag is not a very good fit.

Nigel Watson · #8 03-02-07, 23:25

Could this spare mag. holder be for the Boys AT Rifle mag. as well? Dual purpose? Does one fit? Looks a similar shape. If anyone is producing the canvas pouche count me in please!!

Nigel

Hanno Spoelstra · #9 04-02-07, 22:04

Quote:

Originally posted by Nigel Watson
Could this spare mag. holder be for the Boys AT Rifle mag. as well?

Judging by the shape, I'd say it is a Boys AT rifle magazine pouch. Look what a bad fit the Bren magazine(s) really are.

H.

Jordan Baker · #10 05-02-07, 01:25

In one of my carrier manuals it refers to it as "CTL-1335A Case, Spare Magazine Bren" I know they have had typing errors before but it is preceded and followed by Bren stuff. Also the general shape of the whole thing is more inline with a Bren mag then a Boys mag.

I will check the shape of the metal plate tomorrow with a Boys mag and will post a picture.

rob love · #11 05-02-07, 04:18

Jordan: What are you doing with Boys mags.....Best you save yourself a lot of money and sell it to me. That way you will save a small fortune not having to buy the rifle, and another small fortune not buying the ammo.

Below I checked the size with a Boys mag and a Bren mag on top of one of those rusty metal plates. Looks like a precise fit.

If someone has a good example of one of these pouches available for loan, I would be willing to make up some pretty exact copies.

Jordan Baker · #12 05-02-07, 04:24

Hi Rob

I don't have any Boys mags. I just said I would check the size with a mag.

Plus I have 3 empty Boys ammo bins to fill with mags. Any I find Im keeping.

I have made a pattern for the bag and should have a sample made in a day or two. I will post my pictures when I get it completed.

Jordan Baker · #13 05-02-07, 19:18

Hi eveyrone

I tried out a Boys mag on the plate and Im not convinced that it was for the Boys. I still believe that it was for 1 Bren mag. The general shape of the plate and the fact that most carriers did not have a Boys.

Jordan Baker · #14 05-02-07, 19:19

And just to tease Rob.

rob love · #15 05-02-07, 23:12

Jordan
The only way you can tease me is if that' is an Inglis made Boys. I'm stuck with a run of the mill BSA Boys, but at least it's a MK1, so it fits into the brackets properly.

Bruce has offerred to send me his origional pouch, of which I will make copies. We can compare results Jordan.

Nigel Watson · #16 06-02-07, 22:02

Hi Jordan
It would be interesting to find out the carriers that were fitted with this mag pouche, what their designation was. Still lean towards a Boys though because the carrier was really only developed to carry a bren gun team who would jump out with bren whilst the driver retired to a safe distance before being signalled to pick the guys up! Two mags for a bren also doesn't seem sufficient especially if you were firing in the heads down position! Extra mags would have to be lobbed over from the back if there was someone there of course!!!! Shall look into this further. Will give me something to do these freezing cold evenings!!

Nigel

Bruce Parker (RIP) · #17 06-02-07, 22:22

Lots of things on Mk.1 carriers seem to be there because Ford was more interested in fulfilling the contract (and using up,the pre-made parts I figure) than adapting to evolving needs. My Mk.1 was made in March of 1943 and had the full set of brackets to store the Boys in the left rear and the aerial base and mounting plates for the Wireless No.11 set. Both of these were obsolete in 1941. The "modernizations" I can see are the use of canvas rather than rubber straps, wood instead of rubber firing rests, change to the later style of lighting, removal of the crowbar on the front and elimination of the Bren loading tool container on the rear battery box. (simplified track adjusterd too?)

horsa · #18 07-02-07, 15:21

Found one of these brackets on eBay. Don't need it for any of my projects so figured I should pass on the info as it applies to this discussion.

Check all of the photos in the auction link below because it isn't the main item he is listing since he isn't sure what he has.

http://cgi.ebay.com/AUSTRALIAN-BRITI...em320079760750

rob love · #19 07-02-07, 18:12

He also has the POW can holder for the mortar variant on another auction. With that one he also includes a half a gas tank strap.
http://cgi.ebay.com/AUSTRALIAN-BRITI...QQcmdZViewItem

Jordan Baker · #20 10-02-07, 06:46

I got my first attempt at the canvas case done tonight. The only goof i made was on the corners sd the material was very hard to sew and not have it bunch up. I still have to track down some leather for the edging and get myself a snap button.

Jordan Baker · #21 11-02-07, 23:18

Just wondering if anyone has a source for the split rivets used to hold everything together.

rob love · #22 10-04-07, 21:21

Well I have finally got around to making the copy of this pouch, (on loan from Bruce Parker) and decided to try out the Boys magazine. Apologies to Bruce for the lengthy time it has taken. Anyway, as I (and others) suspected, it is a perfect fit for, not one, but two boys magazines. Mind you I am only theorizing on this, because being a poor Boys owner, I have only one mag. But the first mag fits into the bottom perfectly, with room for the second mag to be just enclosed by the pouches snap.

I have been searching for something made out of this particular weave of canvas, and have had no luck. I likely have the weave out in the canvas shed, but in green, and not the sand colour of the origional. So I will make the first pouch out of recycled canvas from a 37 pattern large pack.

The closest I have come to this weave and colour are some of the US made M1919A4 canvas goods, but none of them are of sufficient size to make any quantity.

Photos below. We are slowly doing away with the long-time mysteries of the mk1 universal carrier.

Below are some of the accesories I have for my Boys.

Brad Mills · #23 10-04-07, 21:50

Grrr....

You have far too many toys Rob. Nice work. I like the brackground image as well...

rob love · #24 10-04-07, 22:05

Never enough toys Brad. The images just happened to be sitting on the wall already. They are waiting for me to find a proper frame and glass for them.

Lynn Eades · #25 11-04-07, 10:22

Jordan, they are called " biflocated" rivets(not sure about the spelling)

kevin powles · #26 30-10-09, 22:43

Hi all, I have been making the bren mag pouch over the last couple of nights at work, I borrowed an original to copy, I made from it from a mouse eaten signal satcheal bag and a canvas water bucket cut up. Pretty sure this was designed for a single bren magazine. I put it through the washing macine on a 95 degrees wash with some hevily soiled overalls to try and fade it a little and blend the different canvas colours together, it made the leather edging look old too. I will post up some dimensions. I have a picture of the 2pdr tank hunter carrier and this was fitted to it.

rob love · #27 01-11-09, 15:18

Nice job Kevin.

I still say it is designed to contain two boys mags. It is far too sloppy a fit for one or two bren mags, and it is very unlike the British to design a bag which would have so much wasted space. Since this thread started, I have now managed to come up with 6 or seven boys mags, still not enough to fill a boys mag chest, but enough to test the theroy of the two mags in the pouch.

I had hoped to produce a number of these pouches, but life and other priorities get in the way. I ended up buying plain white canvas and dying it to the proper colour. Worked pretty good, except that I have to dye the canvas first, then sew it into a pouch. If you make the pouch first, the colour does not make it into the seams. I did manage to make up a bunch of the metal brackets and the wood backing, and found the proper rivets at a supply shop in Winnipeg. I even took the time to stamp the Ford part numbers and the year into the metal and the wood, although in all likelihood they would never be seen again once mounted into a carrier.

kevin powles · #28 01-11-09, 18:32

Hi Rob, I would think it is designed for a single bren magazine for a number of reasons, firstly this pouch is designed to provide the gunner with a magazine quickly whilst he is forward in the firing position, providing a quick continuation of rapid fire the bren gun can provide, No reason to have two mags in there as already mentioned in this thread, the other one would fall out when getting the other one. The rate of fire of a boys rifle is much slower and another mag could easily be retreaved from the ammo bins, I can only conclude the mag pouch is placed in the position it is in to provide sucession of rapid fire, secondly i have a picture from Bovington tank museum of a 2 pounder carrier fitted with this pouch and a bren gun stowed in the upright position. Also not knowing too much about the boys rifle wouldnt a clip of boys ammo be in the pouch without it's mag?, if it was designed for the boys rifle ammo?.

Doug Lavoie · #29 15-11-09, 08:00

Kevin,
Have you more measurement info. on the mag pouches than what is in the thumbnail, if so, could I obtain it from you? As well, the board, and the metal strap info.?
Thanks,
Doug