Preserved Stuart tanks in Canada ?

[André Flener]

Dear Members,

I would like to know how many Stuart tanks (M3 & M5 series) actually are preserved, or have at least survived more or less complete, in Canada.

So far, I'm aware of the following ones:

- M5A1 (with early style turret) at Camp Borden;
- M5A1 (with late style turret) at Camp Borden;
- M5A1 "Simitar" at the RCA Museum Camp Shilo;
- M5A1 turret-less recce version in St Catherines.

Does any other military museum have one in its collection (or in the near futur)? Are there any owned by private collectors?

Maybe a few more ex-Portuguese Army M5A1's were re-imported to Canada...

Many thanks in advance for any information you could provide!

Kind Regards,

André Flener

G103 Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G103/

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by André Flener
- M5A1 turret-less recce version in St Catherines.

Of which pictures can be found here: http://www.geocities.com/cmpvehicles..._vi_recce.html

[André Flener]

Thanks, Hanno, for the link!

Here are some links for photos of the other Stuarts on my list:

- Camp Borden's two M5A1's:

http://www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6209/stuart.htm

(Unfortunately, Fred Olsen's website about the Worthington Park Museum seems to be offline at the moment.)

But I've two 'reserve' URLs for these tanks:

Early style turret M5A1:

http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/c...n-StuartM5.gif

(Source: http://mailer.fsu.edu/~akirk/tanks/can/Canada.htm )
(BTW, the 2nd Stuart "TORONTO" seen on that webpage is nowadays "SIMITAR" at the RCA Museum!)

Late style turret M5A1:

http://www.eagle.ca/~harry/vehicles/worth/41.JPG

(Source: http://www.eagle.ca/~harry/vehicles/worth/index.htm )


- M5A1 "SIMITAR" at the RCA Museum, Shilo:

http://www.artillery.net/english/photogalmuseum.htm

BTW, the same tank was once in Strathcona’s Horse's Historical Vehicle Troop:

http://www.strathconas.ca/Historic%2...istorical.html
http://www.strathconas.ca/Historic%2...e/histpics.htm

Well, now I'm searching for more Stuarts in Canada!

Regards,
André

G103 Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G103/

[Robert Dabkowski]

When I last passed thru (about 4 months ago) there were two turrets and a hull here but definitely unrestored and incomplete. My understanding (based on pure rumor) is that this vehicle was one of 3 "excavated" by Don Smith from Levy's Scrapyard in Toronto after Hurricane Hazel had washed them out of the yard and down into the Humber River valley. I believe that the other two (externally restored) now stand watch on Worthington's grave at Camp Borden. Robert in Toronto

[André Flener]

Thanks, Robert, for that information!

AFAIK, Don & George Elliott are two Canadian collectors, right? And I assume that you saw a M5A1 hull and turrets. That would be a "M5A1 project" in private hands for my list.

According to the search engines, Hurricane Hazel occured in october 1954. At around that time, most Canadian M5A1's were transferred to Portugal. So it's interesting to learn that at least three Stuarts were already located in a scrapyard - obviously at the company "Levy Auto Parts"; better known for their 'tank' parts. I wonder, if they also sold Stuart parts...

Yes, there are two M5A1's in the Worthington Park Museum at Camp Borden. So it could be possible that these tanks never went to Portugal and again back.

Regards,
André

G103 Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G103/

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by André Flener

Thanks, Robert, for that information!

AFAIK, Don & George Elliott are two Canadian collectors, right? And I assume that you saw a M5A1 hull and turrets. That would be a "M5A1 project" in private hands for my list.

According to the search engines, Hurricane Hazel occured in october 1954. At around that time, most Canadian M5A1's were transferred to Portugal. So it's interesting to learn that at least three Stuarts were already located in a scrapyard - obviously at the company "Levy Auto Parts"; better known for their 'tank' parts. I wonder, if they also sold Stuart parts...

Yes, there are two M5A1's in the Worthington Park Museum at Camp Borden. So it could be possible that these tanks never went to Portugal and again back.

Regards,
André

G103 Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G103/

The Stuart at Elliot's was there until 5 (+/-) years ago. It was little more that a hull and a turret and I'm not sure where it went.

[Bob Phillips]

Gentlemen; A few thoughts...The Bill Gregg Stuart camefrom South Eastern Equipment in Georgia. I recall he also bought two T16 carriers from them. The Stuarts that were`salvagedfrom Levy's are another story- the version I heard was that Don Smith managed to get them airlifted out of the Humbefr River by the Sikorsky helicopterthat wasputting the radio towers on the CN tower0 they flewout of Downsview. These Stuarts were totally stripped hulks .two were scrapped after sitting around Downsview for an extended period, the third rescuedby Elliot brothers.This vehicle now in possesion of Marcus Schneider (Willys Acres) and you can see it on his website, Finally just a week ago I took photos of the Borden Stuarts including some inside shots of one vehicle from the rear. no engines or transmissions but a very rusty turret basket and some other innards- If I can ever figure out how to post a photo I will include that picture/ Thats the way I heard it !

[peter simundson]

There were at least 8 Stuarts against the back fence in Levy's.
In 1954 the hill was washed away and down they went into the ravine. Levy's promptly sent crews don to strip off the parts. The turrets and hulls were left on city property. Don then decided in 1976 to recover the three best hulls and turrets. He persuaded the Service Corps to help him do the recovery.
Off they went with wreckers and flatbeds After a month the three were at Base Downsview. The following Spring Don was short of cash so sold one for scrap. The scrapper took the wrong one. He took the one with all the hatches engine covers and back doors. The following year Don GAVE the other two, with turrets to me. I took the outside .30 cal mount off one turret. About two months later I phoned Elliott's and asked if they would store them (bad move). Any way one was sold to a Quebec restorer, who never picked it up (just a turret) and the other went to that hard worker Markus.
The other turrets and parts behind Levy's were scrapped by Weston about
15 years ago in a Park cleanup. More to come??

[Bob Phillips]

Thank you Peter for setting the record straight! You havent got any old recovery photos tucked away do you ????

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by André Flener
AFAIK, Don & George Elliott are two Canadian collectors, right? And I assume that you saw a M5A1 hull and turrets. That would be a "M5A1 project" in private hands for my list.

Correct, the Elliot brothers have at least one M5A1 Stuart.

So it's interesting to learn that at least three Stuarts were already located in a scrapyard - obviously at the company "Levy Auto Parts"; better known for their 'tank' parts. I wonder, if they also sold Stuart parts...

The Royal Netherlands Army's historical collection recently acquired NOS HVSS running gear for their M4A3(105) HVSS. Packed with the sprockets was a note stating:

DATE JULY 1964
QTY. 1
NAME PARTS
F.S.N. 2530-00-608-2270
PACKED BY LEVY AUTO PARTS

Since being packed by Levy Auto Parts these parts found their way to Greece, where they were acquired by another dealer who shipped them to the Netherlands.
Levy Auto Parts were probably the largest military vehicle surplus dealer in the world - so they likely sold Stuart parts too, André!

[Robert Dabkowski]

Brian Asbury, a rather well know HMV parts dealer here in Ontario took many, many truck loads of MV parts out of this yard. I'm not sure if Brian reads this list but if so I hope that he might better inform us about some of the more "colouful" events that occurred at Levy's over the years.

Robert in Toronto

[André Flener]

Well, this looks like some very "colourful" events:

http://www3.sympatico.ca/jonno/levys.html

Apparently in 1967, Levy Auto Parts had been accused of storing highly inflammable things on its property...

Regards,
André

G103 Group: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/G103/

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

A contributor wrote:
"M5A1 "SIMITAR" at the RCA Museum, Shilo: ... BTW, the same tank was once in Strathcona’s Horse's Historical Vehicle Troop:"

I rode in this very tank in 1985 when it was owned by Dr. William (Bill) Gregg in Ontario. He had it restored and painted with the name TORONTO and I believe it was on a cover of Wheels and Tracks magazine (I would have to check my set to confirm). Bill told me that when he bought it (I don't recall where he bought it out of) it has USA registration numbers and a US applied name (apparently original is my recollection). I think it was FURY but would have to check my appraisal records. He named it TORONTO and he later donated his collection to the RCA Museum in Shilo, Manitoba. Shilo tried to trade it to the LdSH in Edmonton, but Shilo is legally obliged to keep the core Gregg Canadian Collection together (a condition of the donation in 1985) and the trade (for Brian Wood's superb restored Cab 13 Field Artilley Tractor) was reveresed.

I have also seen and photographed the two Stuart tanks at CFB Borden (2009) and the Stuart tank (turretless command vehicle) in St. Catharines, Ontario. I used to play on the latter one when I was a child. My memory tells me that the base 90 degree elbows for the rear ducts for wading ashore at Normandy were still on it in the 1950s. I have also heard that it was a BC Regiment tank that was knocked out in Normandy and that the Lincs and Wincs salvaged it and used it for the rest of the war - but I cannot confirm that story at this time. [I know the BCRs lost a bunch of Sherman in one battle but am not sure if they had any Stuarts.]

[Colin Macgregor Stevens]

There is another Stuart tank in the Canadian War Museum. As I recall this one was part of the trade with the late Jacques Littlefield in California which I assisted by doing an appraisal.

Here is a photo published by someone else:
http://www.pbase.com/mrclark/image/63318555