Light Green paint M-Series

[Wpns 421]

On behave of a few members of the OMVA, I did a search to acquire a light green paint. This paint was used on the M-Series vehicles 3 paint camo scheme.
Well after quite a few trials and errors and some expense, I have finally found the right shade and dull mat finish. Today I received the paint from my supplier and I will be painting a small trailer 3 color camo to see if it meets everyones expectations. If the paint is indeed the right color and shade, I will then proceed to order a minimum of 10 gallons. I have also had the darker forest green paint reproduced by the same supplier. Everyone tells me that the colors are exactly right. We got the sample from a new/old 1960's can of military paint.
If anyone is interested in either the light green or the dark green please let me know. I will be bringing some paint and an exemple to the Acton show in March. As of this moment nothing is written in stone and I am asking if you are interested in acquiring this paint let me know. This way if I have a number, I will be able to bargain the price. The price, I don't know depends on the quantity buy. The last time I had military paint made by this company I paid about $85 @ gallon. Gilles

[Scott Bentley]

Gilles,

You've got my attention. I'm in the market for paint. Especially the Forest Green for the 3 Color Cam Pattern.

What is the Dark Forest Green your talking about? Do you mean the 60s Semi Gloss OD Green, or the other OD Green used in the 3 Color Cam Pattern?



I threw up this picture as its probably the best one ive seen regarding the 3 Color Cam.

Scotty

[rob love]

Scotty

I think it's the olive drab you are after. The other color was the dark green, also reffered to as forest green. The forest green is similar to the color the B vehs were painted after we quit camouflaging them.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by rob love

Scotty

I think it's the olive drab you are after. The other color was the dark green, also reffered to as forest green. The forest green is similar to the color the B vehs were painted after we quit camouflaging them.

Hey Rob,

Thats why I tossed up the photo. I require both of those "Greens" on the Ferret and 113. Was hoping he may have had both matched up. Saves me having to get my paint from 3 different places. All things being equal, if Gilles at least has the Pea/Ugly/Light/Chalky Green life is good as it seems to be the real pest to match.

Forest Green.... That damn color description seems to cover a huge spectrum of green shades

Scotty B

[Ed Storey]

Here is an image taken in Petawawa in 1980 of the three-colour camouflage on a 2CER M135CDN Field Kitchen Truck hitched to a M106A1CDN Water Trailer.

[Eric B]

Hello

The sample that Gilles was able to match came from a can of paint that i had made up by mistake a number of years ago, It was labelled Camouflage green and came from a Canadian Military standard paint code binder.

When i went back to the paint producer two years ago, they were unable to find the old CDN paint codes to reproduce it. They were able to match it again but only in gloss. They did have the codes for the current US Colours.

I have seen a sample of Gilles match and it seems to be the right colour.

I think this will be the closest we will find at this point in time. It is not labeled forest Green, which is a US colour code. Forest green is easily found.

I have not heard back from Ardvaark Sales so asume they are no longer in business.

Thanks
Eric

[Scott Bentley]

Has there been any movement on the topic of paint?

I am literally days away from paint at this point.

I'm getting tempted to take the "Federal Standard" Paint Codes that are listed on the Armoured Acorn website and see if the local Dealer can mix some up.

He has these codes listed for the 3 Color Cam from the mid 70s until CARC came into use:

FS 34098 = OD Green (Khaki Drab)
FS 34172 = Flat Green
FS 36081 = Flat Black

If you go to this site that has the Federal Standard Codes, the colors look pretty damn good compared to all of the pictures I have on hand from that era, and the vehicles in the yard here at work that haven't been CARC Painted yet.

Legacy Canadian 3 Color Cam Pattern = 34172 34098 36081

Another buddy got some great looking Flat Desert Tan made up locally, so i'm starting to get the bug.......

Scotty

[Matthew Reid]

Scotty

I have a copy of the paint chips for the 1-GP-12C colour standrds. Canada used the 1-GP-12C colour standards till 1994 when then they were withdrawn we then switched to the FS595 Standards.

FS34098 is right shade of green for the old Canadian 502-321 but quite a bit too light.

FS 34172 is actually an invalid colour in the Federal Standard Color charts.

That colour is actually FS 24172 the web sight also lists a FS 14172 but that also is not a valid color. The Federal Standard Color web site is not an offical web site but is hosted by a model airplane builder in Norway there are numerous errors in the web site so be aware.

FS24172 is close to the 503-322 standard (the light green used on the tri colour camo) but FS 24172 is a semi gloss paint and there may be no offical mixing formula avalible for a flat version of it.

FS36081 I will have to dig out the Black section of the 1-GP-12C colors chips.
As the rest of the colour specs are packed away for long term safe storage so the colours do not get corupted.


If you can wait till Friday Scotty I will post pics of the the those FS colors beside the Canadain 1-GP-12c Colour Standrds And you can see how much they are out. and then you can decide what route you wanna go. The Wife took the good Camera to Vegas and she will be back Friday so I can not do pictures till then.

Tempo Aerospace (http://tempo-aerospace.com/) can match any of the old 1-GP-12C Canadian Standard colours. Their Paint is not cheap but it is not cheap paint either.


Matthew


PS Scotty I could try colour copying the 1-GP-12C colours on to photo paper and see how they turn out and send then to you.
Let me know if you want me to give that a shot. As I have to pic up some photo paper

Matthew

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by matthewq4b

Scotty

I have a copy of the paint chips for the 1-GP-12C colour standrds. Canada used the 1-GP-12C colour standards till 1994 when then they were withdrawn we then switched to the FS595 Standards.

FS34098 is right shade of green for the old Canadian 502-321 but quite a bit too light.

FS 34172 is actually an invalid colour in the Federal Standard Color charts.

That colour is actually FS 24172 the web sight also lists a FS 14172 but that also is not a valid color. The Federal Standard Color web site is not an offical web site but is hosted by a model airplane builder in Norway there are numerous errors in the web site so be aware.

FS24172 is close to the 503-322 standard (the light green used on the tri colour camo) but FS 24172 is a semi gloss paint and there may be no offical mixing formula avalible for a flat version of it.

FS36081 I will have to dig out the Black section of the 1-GP-12C colors chips.
As the rest of the colour specs are packed away for long term safe storage so the colours do not get corupted.


If you can wait till Friday Scotty I will post pics of the the those FS colors beside the Canadain 1-GP-12c Colour Standrds And you can see how much they are out. and then you can decide what route you wanna go. The Wife took the good Camera to Vegas and she will be back Friday so I can not do pictures till then.

Tempo Aerospace (http://tempo-aerospace.com/) can match any of the old 1-GP-12C Canadian Standard colours. Their Paint is not cheap but it is not cheap paint either.


Matthew


PS Scotty I could try colour copying the 1-GP-12C colours on to photo paper and see how they turn out and send then to you.
Let me know if you want me to give that a shot. As I have to pic up some photo paper

Matthew

I apreciate any help Matt.

My goal is to be able to take a modern paint code into the local paint dealer and get something mixed up that is the 95% solution.

I've turned both Base Petawawa and Gagetown upside down looking for some original paint. No dice. Recent HAZMAT/WHIMIS regulations ensured that old cans of paint with no MSDS Sheets got biffed a few years back. Essentially i've given up on finding the "Real McCoy" paint sitting in a paint locker on a Base somewhere. All I can do now is hope to find a very close modern tint. There is a local professional paint dealer here that will make up Flat Paint for under $100 a Gallon.

I'm going to put off the priming until i've found something. But with lots of "available" 383 Green and warmer weather, temptation is killing me

[Matthew Reid]

Well in that case the best FS595C match to the 503-321 colour is FS34129 (a flat colour not on coloserver.net but is in the latest 595C standards) a very close match and FS14081 this is a gloss paint but is a near perfect match clour wise
Either are much much much closer than the FS34098 that is way way off compared to either of of the others

The FS24172 is very close to 503-322, 503-322 is just a bit darker.

A flat version of FS14081 or FS34129 and FS24172 should get you to the 95% mark inregards to the green.

Do you want me to take pics on Friday or Scan the colours ?

Matthew

Originally Posted by armybuck041

I apreciate any help Matt.

My goal is to be able to take a modern paint code into the local paint dealer and get something mixed up that is the 95% solution.

I've turned both Base Petawawa and Gagetown upside down looking for some original paint. No dice. Recent HAZMAT/WHIMIS regulations ensured that old cans of paint with no MSDS Sheets got biffed a few years back. Essentially i've given up on finding the "Real McCoy" paint sitting in a paint locker on a Base somewhere. All I can do now is hope to find a very close modern tint. There is a local professional paint dealer here that will make up Flat Paint for under $100 a Gallon.

I'm going to put off the priming until i've found something. But with lots of "available" 383 Green and warmer weather, temptation is killing me

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by matthewq4b

Do you want me to take pics on Friday or Scan the colours ?

Matthew

A scan would be great Matt.

I'll PM you my Email.

Thanks

[Scott Bentley]

OK,

To make this a bit easier for me (and i'm sure others), to wrap my head around, I labelled this pic with the Paint Codes:

**Note: Borrowed photo of an MLU'ers fancy new Iltis Tub**



If anyone has any suggestions or corrections, please advise and i'll fix the pic.

Scotty

[Matthew Reid]

Scotty I have not forgot about you.

I tried scanning the colours and it was a NO go the scanner does not like the super flat colours and does not interpritate them well at all.

I will get photos done outside in sunlight.
I will post photos here and E-mail you the full size versions.

I will take pics of the Canadian colour chips next to the FS color chips and
of each next to parts painted the correct colors. The only thing I do not have is an unfaded Item painted the Canadian Black.

The Canadian Black has 2 possibilities 501-301 which is actually the darkest shade of grey (almost black) used by the CF and 512-301 which is the ONLY shade of black used by the CF.

FS 37038 is the closest match to the 512-301 black it is basically a perfect match.

The closest match to 501-301 Dark Grey grey is FS 26044 and it is not that close.

Just as a note of Interest My CF KLR250 motor bike is painted FS34094 (383 Green)

Matthew

[Matthew Reid]

Pt 1

OK it is Done.

I bumped a couple other things to get these pictures done.
The pictures were done out side in bright sun light (all I had today)

The First Colour we will deal with is the Canadian Olive Drab Known as 503-321 Green

The first pic is comparing the 1-GP-12C 503-321 colour chip next to an NOS Iltis fuel Can holder. As you can see this a perfect match

The second picture is Comparing 503-321 Green to FS34098
You can see the colour is way way off.

The third picture is comparing 503-321 to FS34129 agan not a great match

The Fourth picture is comparing 503-321 to FS24129 Not a bad match but a little too brown

The fifth picture is comparing 503-321 to FS14079


Since I can only up load 5 pics at a time I will continue after posting this.

Matthew

[Matthew Reid]

Pt2 to continue on with the 503-321 colour

The First picture is comparing 503-321 to FS 14081

As you can see there is no really close match to this colour in the FS colors. The best bet would be to take a piece of NOS Iltis gear and have the paint colour matched.

The second picture is comparing 503-322 Green to FS 24172
As you can see this colour is pretty darn close. And would make an adquate stand in. This is the only colour in the FS colours that even comes close to matching this colour.

The third picture is comparing the 1-GP-12C 512-301 Black (the only flat black in the standards) to FS 37038 this is a near perfect match.


The only other option for the black colour of the camo scheme is 1-GP-12C 501-301 This is a very very dark grey that is near black.

The fouth pic is comparing 501-301 to FS 26044 as you can see FS26044 is too blue.

the Fith pic is comparing 501-301 to FS 15042 tthis is close but 15042 is a high gloss paint.

In the FS standards the first digit in the colour denotes the paints luster. 1=gloss 2= Semi Gloss 3=Flat or lusterless.


If any one wants the orginals of these pics PM me your Email adress and I will email them. In total they are 23MB so make sure your email server can handle the file size. Or let me know the max that can be sent at one time.


Remeber Tempo Aerospace can match any of the 1-GP-12C colours the paint is not cheap but they do supply a true CARC paint.


Matthew

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by matthewq4b

Remeber Tempo Aerospace can match any of the 1-GP-12C colours the paint is not cheap but they do supply a true CARC paint.


Matthew

Matt, wow...

Thanks for the snaps. Thats excellent. Nice to see actual examples.

Refresh my memory, what was the cost per Gallon, and was there a minimum amount required to get a run done?

Scotty

[Matthew Reid]

As I recall it was $116 a gallon with $186 mixing charge for any orders under 8 quarts.

I would be willing to throw in for a gallon of each colour if we can get enough people to order. Then we can get the mixing charge waived.
This is a new formula of CARC paint they have, they said the same precautions have to be taken as with non water based Automotive paints
but this stuff is way more durable then the orginal CARC or even automotive paint. I belive it is Aircraft grade paint as that seems to be who they supply the most.


Matthew

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by matthewq4b

As I recall it was $116 a gallon with $186 mixing charge for any orders under 8 quarts.

I would be willing to throw in for a gallon of each colour if we can get enough people to order. Then we can get the mixing charge waived.
This is a new formula of CARC paint they have, they said the same precautions have to be taken as with non water based Automotive paints
but this stuff is way more durable then the orginal CARC or even automotive paint. I belive it is Aircraft grade paint as that seems to be who they supply the most.

Matthew

So, if I understand correctly Matt, if you and I both buy a Gallon of each Color (2 x Gallons = 8 x Quarts), we are exempt from the $186 mixing fee?

Scotty

[Gordon Yeo]

Matthew

I have been following you posts with great interest and have sent you an E-mail. Thank you for all your research and efforts.

Gord

[BCA]

I have re-stocked freshly made Olive Drab 503-321. This is the flat olive drab used for Iltis and the basis for the 3-colour cammo pattern. (see Scotty's (Armybuck041) previous posting of the Iltis body where you can see this shade).
As usual shipping paint is a problem: I can bring to OMVA show in June or pick-up at the warehouse near Milton, Ontario. $65/gallon.
I also stock the semi-gloss olive drab which was the factory colour for M38 and all other Canadian 1950's M-series vehicles.
PM me if interested.
Brian