GM Otter light recce car

[Larry Hayward]

The photo has to show an Otter in Italy as it has traces of the red & white recognition marking on the front and the RAF style roundal on the upper front of the hull. Also the terrain looks like Italy and nothing like Northern France. Having seen a few photos of British Army Otters in Italy 1943-45 I would guess that this is from a Canadian Army unit.

Out of interest in the enlarged photo it looks like there is a chalk swastika below the smoke discharger !

Larry Hayward

MVT Member

[James Gosling]

Hi Larry , this Otter was definately in Italy and the marking under the smoke discharger is a cross. This was painted on vehicles to represent the enemy in excercises.However this is mostly seen on vehicles used on Pre-invasion excercises in the UK before D-Day.Maybe this was general practice at the time in all theatres?
James

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Larry just found another photo of a turretless Otter - see GM Otter with the RAF Regt in India / Burma in WW2.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by James Gosling
The turretless Otter in the photo in Holland appears to be the same one as in the picture I've attached. It is being used as an artillery FOO vehicle from the insignia on the uniforms.

Found some new info about this photo:

"Privates W.G. Skidstrup and A.A. Annala working on a scout car of the 1st Canadian Infantry Division near Apeldoorn, Netherlands, 19 April 1945

Credit: Lieut. Christopher J. Woods / Canada. Dept. of National Defence / Library and Archives Canada / PA-116322"

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by James Gosling
Sadly the Otter in the picture, covered in brambles is not for sale.I spoke with the owner in June and he is adamant that he won't sell it or a second one he has hiding nearby. Both have been completely gutted inside, with every major component removed. The other one has had the turret removed and the roof of the hull is split open like a banana. they do however have some interesting fittings on the outside still remaining, which I hope to go back and photograph (when I was there the owner would not let me photograph anything).

Seems the Otter in the brambles is the same as shown in the pic below. This picture was taken at the Museum Musée Août 44, Falaise (France).

[James Gosling]

I Saw Monsieur Leloup last Summer and he allowed me into the compound to view the Otters. Both are missing engines and gearboxes and the interiors have been stripped out. The far one has sustained some very serious battle damage, the whole roof is blown in and along the armour by the driver a large strip of armour has been pealed back where it was hit.
Whilst there he also showed me his Panther and the trailer to go with the newly restored Famo half track.

Here's the other damage!

[Nick Coaker]

James, Hanno,
I too have been to see those Otters. Well, not specifically, but when you see two you have to take photographs. I'll stick one on that I'm quite chuffed with, its what is left of the front of to one of them. I did film it, but I can't get that off the camcorder, so it ain't going on here!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

I've seen a picture of a turretless Otter in Holland somewhere, I'll make an effort to look it up.
Come to think of it, MLU Forum member Dirk Leegwater has a turretless Otter too!

Dirk´s turretless Otter has been sold to a collector in Holland, who is well underway with it´s restoration:



The new owner is looking for as many pictures of Otter Recce Cars in use in Holland as can be found - who can help?

Thanks,
Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

The new owner is looking for as many pictures of Otter Recce Cars in use in Holland as can be found - who can help?

Found some pictures from beeldbankwo2.nl on my hard drive. All were taken in Holland; go to the site and punch in the picture numbers to find the details about where & when.

Hanno

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

"Privates W.G. Skidstrup and A.A. Annala working on a scout car of the 1st Canadian Infantry Division near Apeldoorn, Netherlands, 19 April 1945

Then and now!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

At first glance this looks like a turretless Otter but I think it has a tarp or similar over it?

Picture taken during the liberation of Ommen, The Netherlands.

Source: http://www.oudommen.nl/bevrijding-van-ommen/

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Seems the Otter in the brambles is the same as shown in the pic below. This picture was taken at the Museum Musée Août 44, Falaise (France).

I knew that photo and museum name were familiar. The museum closed and the collection was auctioned earlier this year. Hanno posted a thread on it.

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...661#post178661

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another turretless? one in Italy

Caption: Chevrolet Otter crossing a Bailey bridge over the Volturno river at Grazzanise in October 1943


Source: http://panzerserra.blogspot.de/2013/...reda-20mm.html

[Alan McGuinness]

Otters appear briefly in these Pathe films:

http://www.britishpathe.com/video/crossing-the-volturno
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/it...ops-and-people
http://www.britishpathe.com/video/te...n-in-palestine

[lssah2025]

Ok, another question, the Otter book calls for 9.00x16's, would 10.50x16's be too big for the rims? Also would US NDT's be appropriate to use, or should they be UK bar grip/track grip?

This picture the tyres definitely look bigger than 9.00's

[lssah2025]

More pics... of Otters

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

See http://www.aiolfipartners.com/ for an upcoming auction of part of the collection of the Musée août 1944 ("Museum August 1944") at Falaise, now permanently closed. As I understand it, part of the Leloup collection will be displayed in a new museum, the remainder is being auctioned off.

Included in the auction are two Otter wrecks, an unrestored Bedford OY, a Canadian Dodge 1.5-ton truck, and a Ford F60S LAAT(?)

We know the turretless Otter in the background of the photo above was bought by a MLU member, but where did the turreted one go?

I thought it went to the MM Park France museum, but comparing pictures (below, courtesy of Pierre Olivier), this isn't the same one.

So, where did Mr. Leloup's second Otter go?

[lssah2025]

We know the turretless Otter in the background of the photo above was bought by a MLU member, and hopefully restoration started within the next year... maybe they got it for parts or for a project...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by lssah2025

We know the turretless Otter in the background of the photo above was bought by a MLU member, and now will be owned by another MLU member and hopefully restoration started within the next year...

Would that be you? Please keep us posted!

Will you go the "battle damage repair" route when restoring?

[lssah2025]

After some research the 2nd Otter (turreted one) did goto MM Park, La Wantzenau (France), it is currently in their garage.

[lssah2025]

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...057#post247057

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another turretless Otter, courtesy of Jordan Baker:

Late War Otter in Holland. No turret with a machine gun mounted up top. A huge pile of stowage. Interestingly it appears to be riding on 1050x16 tires.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Another turretless Otter, courtesy of Jordan Baker:

I had the same picture lined up for publication on MLU. it's a picture taken in "t Zandt", Netherlands 1945. source: https://beeldbankwo2.nl/nl/

Attached is another turretless Otter. Picture taken in Vierakker, Netherlands 1945. source:https://www.geldersarchief.nl/

Alex

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Another turretless Otter, used as a pack mule:



Men of the 5th Battalion, The Northamptonshire Regiment, in the town of Portomaggiore, Italy, April 1945
Photograph, World War Two, Italy (1943-1945), 1945.

The 5th Battalion was part of the 11th Infantry Brigade and served throughout the campaigns in Sicily and Italy, ending the war with crossing the Italian border into Austria. Portomaggiore is located near Ferrara in Emilia-Romagna.

From a collection of British official war photographs relating to the 78th Division.

NAM Accession Number
NAM. 1999-03-88-126

Copyright/Ownership
National Army Museum, Out of Copyright

Location
National Army Museum, Study collection

Object URL
https://collection.nam.ac.uk/detail....1999-03-88-126

[Hanno Spoelstra]

"1st Canadian inf div, Heemraadssingel, Rotterdam, May 1945"



Source: Rotterdam City Archives - https://hdl.handle.net/21.12133/3184...6607AD104A58DF

[Larry Hayward]

Great colour photo! I wonder what colour the vehicle is in as it looks to be slightly glossy?

According to my references it should be SCC. 15 and at this late stage no need for any black disruptive camo.

[m606paz]

Factory pics

[m606paz]

more factory pics

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

Originally Posted by m606paz

more factory pics

Great pics. Most certainly a prototype. Note the back has a vision port instead of the arms for the radio antenna mounts and there are no interior fittings. The nose was also changed on production models. The civilian license plate and buildings put this at the GM plant in Oshawa circa 1941.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

“Otter light reconnaissance vehicles of an RAF Regiment field squadron contingent make a detour near a wrecked bridge destroyed by retreating German troops, during a patrol outside Thessaloniki, Greece, 1944.
SOURCE/CREDIT: Trievnor J (Flt Lt) Royal Air Force official photographer/© IWM CNA 3277”