Kangaroo Photos wanted

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
The use of 'RAM' Kangaroos in Italy was discussed here on the fourm before, under the thread: Kangaroos, in The Armour Forum, located: here.

Yes, Priest and Sherman Kangaroos, I know that. No Rams as far as can be ascertained, yet the man who sent me the pictures of the broken bridge said they were made in Italy.

Of the last four photos I posted I have no further details and/or better scans. What you see is what you get. The were either sent to me or I found them on websites during the past years. Any info is welcome.

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Rob van Meel in Beware: Repro 1 CACR titles
On Kangaroos in Tilburg. I'll go and see the local history department of the city. Maybe they may be able to help.

Yes, they will - see http://stadsmuseum.tilburg.nl/bevrijding2004.htm (see pics below),
and http://regionaalarchief.tilburg.nl/r.../wo2/index.htm.

Also make sure to search for "tank" on http://beeldonline.tilburg.nl/ - I found a couple of Kangaroo pics with location details.

Theo Dekker knows a lot about the Kangaroos, too: http://regionaalarchief.tilburg.nl/r...urg/dekker.htm

Cheers,
Hanno


Source: http://stadsmuseum.tilburg.nl/tilbur...fotopagina.htm


Source: http://stadsmuseum.tilburg.nl/strijd...fotopagina.htm

[Mark W. Tonner]

Hi Hanno;

Do I read the date right "Colonne RAM-tanks van het Canadian Armoured Tank Corps The Kangaroos op 28 oktober op de Markt. In deze tanks werden soldaten naar het front gereden." - 28 October?, for this image:

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Mark W. Tonner
Do I read the date right (...) 28 October?

Yes, you read that right. Earlier I quoted a caption from a photo which was obviously taken at the same event: "De Markt, Tilburg, 27 October 1944, waiting for a liberation parade". As the population of Tilburg had been waiting for the liberation for well over four years, I guess an extra day didn't matter

H.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Yes, you read that right. Earlier I quoted a caption of what was obviously the same event: "De Markt, Tilburg, 27 October 1944, waiting for a liberation parade". As the population of Tilburg had been waiting for the liberation for well over four years, I guess an extra day didn't matter

Thanks Hanno

[Bill Miller]

Mark, Hanno:

If I may wade into the issue of "kangaroo" photos. Clive now has copies of the 100+ photos, newsreel stills and reference I sent him so I have looked at quite a few of these pics for a number of years now. I make no claims to be any kind of expert, particularly among the esteemed and knowledgable members of this forum. However, allow me to make a few observations.

In all the photos that I have that can be clearly identified as 1CACR and clearly 49APCR (and there are many) almost all the 1CACR Rams are mid to late production "ball mount MG" with the 6 digit CT #'s, Sherman type suspension. Almost all the 49APCR Rams are the early to mid production "auxillary turret type, 5 digit CT #'s. The Rams supplied to the British all retained their CT #'s right to the end of the war. The best evidence of this can be seen in the Pathé newsreel of kangaroos in Hamburg Germany May 3rd, 1945. British Pathé ID # 2026.02

1CACR were never in Hamburg so this IS definitely 49APCR. There is a lot of great footage of columns of kangaroos, some can be seen to be very early type Rams with the side hull doors! I also have pictures from the Henk Kupiers 49RTR/APCR website that show all early Rams and another with side hull doors.
http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~hgmkuip/bl...9frameset.html

I have a theory on why the regiments purposely got different allotments of Rams. This was for parts/maintenance purposes, primarily the difference in suspension and the likely hood of the suspension needing constant attention? Perhaps I am out to lunch on this?

Regarding marking, again, my observation in "identifiable" photos. "Generally", Canadians used crooked allied recognition stars, the 49APCR did not. 49APCR seemed to use some sort of letter/number troop marking on the rear hull corners. (ie. R9, S8, J2, etc...). Again this is observable in the above Pathé clip in Hamburg. The 1CACR used the round "kangaroo" stencil exclusively which can be seen in many photos and really well in some Pathé newsreels. I have not seen the 158 unit sign on any pics of 49APCR rams. I think the 79AD bullshead can be seen vaguely on the fender of 1CACR's "Frisky" in the Pathé # 1969.07... this is also a just a great reel to watch, lots of different armour.

Other observations, the 49APCR seemed to be more dilligent about neatly cutting back the front fenders. The Canadian Rams seem to always have lopsided fenders or bent up fenders that are ready to fall off. The Canadian seem to have more "stuff" on, around and attached particularly later in the war. Some identifiable 49APCR vehicles show horizontal bars welded across the seams on the transmission. It creates a ladder type of structure and probably made it easier for crews to mount up. The posted "Blerick" photo clearly shows this.

Identifying crews by their cap badges is difficult to do in pre February 1945 photo as 1CACR wore the generic CAC badge and 49APCR wore the generic RTR badge (not the RAC mailed fist) which are identical except for the wording on the scroll, "Canada/Fear Naught". Once the 1CACR got their 'roo badges it is much easier... in photos the badges tend to look like "anchors".

One of the pictures posted here is definitely postwar. The Ram coming over the hill, three vertical bars painted on the front, radio guy sitting in the aux turret. is part of a post war series that Bovington has and is similar to "kangaroo" excercises, Pathé newsreel 2525.26 circa 1950? BTW there are shots of other "funnies" in action in this reel (Crabs and Crocs).

The posted photo taken at "Blerick" can be seen at Henk's website listed above along with other photos from the same operation. In my copy of the photo I make the CT # to be 40856. RTR style badge clearly on the one crewman.

Well that's it. if I think of anything else I will post again. I look forward to your comments.

Bill.

[Snowtractor]

Got my Patton copy today. Armadillo is CT40703 and the other ram in it is Diana CT40372 and has a number 39 on the left rear corner. It is interesting to see the angle iron welded on to the hull to hold baggage on other little add-ons.
Sean

[Bill Mulholland]

........Kangaroos. As I am only semi computer literate, I will post in this manner. Re the photos of DiamondTs in this string; my reply is based on the book DIAMOND T Type 980/981 authors:Les Freathy/Robin Pearson(Roundoak Publishing, UK, 2001); the one showing the collapsed Bailey bridge with DT and Kangaroo is in Holland in 1944(p. 50), the one showing the convoy was taken from an autobahn overpass, Germany, 1945(p. 51), and the one showing the D T with the jerry cans stacked between the cab and ballast-box was taken in Holland. The complete photo has a 40 ton Mkll Dyson trl attached to a 981, loaded with an LVT4 Buffalo moving up in preparation for the Rhine crossing(p. 49). The Canadian Army were also great "hooch" builders on the back of their recovery vehicles. During two tours in Germany I spent many a pleasant evening on the back deck of my Centurion and Leopard ARV in the "hootch". Not to detract from the original intent of the subj, I noticed the "T" before I noticed the cargo.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's a picture I had not seen before. It was published in the article "Highlanders in the Low Countries - Operation 'Colin' by the 51st (Highland) Division in Holland in October 1944", After the Battle issue no.120.
It shows 1CACR Kangaroos lined up on a sand path between Eerde and Schijndel, carrying 2nd Seaforth Highlanders into battle on 23 October 1944.
No credits given other than "IWM".

H.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
It shows 1CACR Kangaroos lined up on a sand path between Eerde and Schijndel, carrying 2nd Seaforth Highlanders into battle on 23 October 1944.

Great picture Hanno, I've seen the 'right half' of this picture published before on it's own. Yes, on 23 Oct 44, 2nd Seaforths were 'lifted' by Kangaroos, but they were of the 1st CAPC Sqn, who as of 2359hrs, 23 Oct 44 ceased to exist, being absorbed into the 'new' 1st CAPCR, effect 0001hrs 24 Oct 44.

Cheers

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Caption: "Holland liberated - 27-10-44 Tilburg.
Kangaroos transported infantry of the 6th King's Own Schottish Borderers to Tilburg."

source

Caption: "Holland liberated - 27-10-44 Zundert.
Kangaroos with American infantry's on the way to Antwerp. The first kangaroo or ram tank is towing a 17 pounder anti tank gun plus limber."

source

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Has anyone seen any (wartime) pictures of this armored air intake cover on a Ram Kangaroo?

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Miller
the Henk Kupiers 49RTR/APCR website
http://home-3.tiscali.nl/~hgmkuip/bl...9frameset.html

Also see Home Page for the 49th APCR Association.
Text and pictures to update it are welcome, either myself or Geoff will do the html formatting.

Thanks,
Hanno

[servicepub (RIP)]

Although this was previously posted in the "For Sale" section, members may be interested in knowing that the project which started this thread is now completed.
MLU'er Mark Tonner has written a concise history of the 1st CACR and this is well illustrated thanks to MLU'er Bill Miller. Thanks also go to MLU'er Hanno Spoelstra without whom the book would not be as good as it is.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by servicepub
Although this was previously posted in the "For Sale" section, members may be interested in knowing that the project which started this thread is now completed.
MLU'er Mark Tonner has written a concise history of the 1st CACR and this is well illustrated thanks to MLU'er Bill Miller. Thanks also go to MLU'er Hanno Spoelstra without whom the book would not be as good as it is.

Cheers to both for their assistance and to the mysterious 'servicepub' for his guidance, support and assistance during my work on this project, it is much appreciated.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by servicepub
MLU'er Mark Tonner has written a concise history of the 1st CACR and this is well illustrated thanks to MLU'er Bill Miller. Thanks also go to MLU'er Hanno Spoelstra without whom the book would not be as good as it is.

Glad to have been of help. This book is well worth having and features a number of previously unpublished photographs.

Let's continue the search for more Kangaroo pics! Here's one from the DVD "La Bataille d'Allemagne" (source: http://danielcesar.fotopic.net/)

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

I also now have a collection of photos from the reunion, but my scanner is upgefukkened, so it will be a bit until I can put them online. Lots there of the old lads, though!

[Bill Miller]

Hanno,

Just to put a time and place on Daniel's DVD frame capture. That scene is originally from a British newsreel of the 49th Armd Personnel Carrier Regt. entering Hamburg, May 2, 1945.

Geoff, I look forward to seeing some of the reunion photos! Harold Thompson put me in touch with another lost kangaroo living in BC. If I find anymore kangaroo vets out here we might have enough guys to have our own "western" reunion!?

Bill.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Here's a picture I had not seen before. It was published in the article "Highlanders in the Low Countries - Operation 'Colin' by the 51st (Highland) Division in Holland in October 1944", After the Battle issue no.120.
It shows 1CACR Kangaroos lined up on a sand path between Eerde and Schijndel, carrying 2nd Seaforth Highlanders into battle on 23 October 1944.
No credits given other than "IWM".

The right half of this photo was used in Bill's book on Kangaroos. It appears on page 5. The print was obtained from a private individual.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

A couple more of which I think we have not seen before. Pictures were taken at 't Woold near Winterswijk, and are dated 31 March 1945. According to the source, a fierce fight was fought at 't Woold during which several dozens of German and English soldiers died. Looks like at least four Kangaroos were knocked out.


Temporary graves after "the battle for 't Woold".

Source: http://www.bevrijdingskinderen.nl/bevrijd/1/index.htm

Additional details are welcome!

H.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
a fierce fight was fought at 't Woold during which several dozens of German and English soldiers died.

Found some more info (source):

On 30 March 1945 the Allies approached 't Woold. German soldiers, armed with machine-guns and Panzerfausts, hid in the fields and in farms. When it became clear the British were much closer than expected, the Germans retreated. The German tanks crossed the border behind Rosenhoeve between border markers 762 and 763. Shots were fired across, a number of tanks being put out of action. Dozens of Biritsh and German soldiers died. After the Battle at ´t Woold the fallen soldiers were buried temporarily in the verge of the road.

And (source):

On 30th March a troop of 'B' Squadron of 3rd/4th CLY in support of 6th Royal Welsh Fusiliers cleared the area to the north of river at Bocholt, by first light. At 04:30, 'C' Squadron had joined 10th HLI and moved off at first light with 53rd Recce Regt in the lead. Undefended minefields were encountered as they advance, but machine gunfire from a Customs House caused the Squadron to deploy and shoot up enemy in houses at both sides of the road. One tank was brewed by anti-tank fire when an attempt was made to outflank to the left. Elsewhere, 'A' Squadron had moved through Bocholt to Winterswijk, but some German self-propelled anti-tank guns were encountered on the way which shot up seven Kangaroos and one 3rd/4th CLY RHQ recce Stuart tank. On 31st March 1945, 3rd/4th CLY had 'B' Squadron in support of 4th Royal Welsh Fusiliers, of 71st Brigade, and took anti-tank positions at as they advanced. 'B' Squadron the passed through Winterswijk and continued advance with 10th HLI to Vreden, reaching it against light opposition. They then pushed on to Alsatte, where strong opposition was encountered at and one tank was lost to 88mm fire. Two 88mm guns were destroyed by 'B' Squadron which then helped the infantry to consolidate. By 15;00 'A' Squadron had moved behind 1st Ox & Bucks through Winterswijk to area ½ mile East of Vreden and leaguered there for the night. The Brigade now had orders to concentrate the brigade clear of Oding, which they did, while 3rd/4th CLY stayed with 71st Brigade beyond Vreden.

Also (source):

1100 - A Sqn moved through BOCHOLT to WINTERSWIJK 3375. Some SPs were encountered which shot up 7 Kangaroos and 1 Regtl recce Stuart tank.
Claims:- 40 POWs
Casualties:- nil

[Bill Miller]

Hi Hanno,

Thanks for the interesting links. I had seen those photos before, but it never occurred to me that they were knocked out!? They look very recoverable.

According to the 1945 book "The Story of the 79th Armoured Division", these are tanks of "F" Squadron, 49APCR. Also, the 79 AD book mentions a total of 8 kangaroos being knocked out.

"F" Squadron is interesting as it was a newly formed increment to the 49APCR just for the Rhine crossings. It was created from the 52nd Tank Squadron and fitted with Rams in the first week of March 1945.

Bill.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bill Miller
I had seen those photos before, but it never occurred to me that they were knocked out!? They look very recoverable.

Yes, it could very well be they were put back in action the next day. Relatively few tanks being knocked-out were actually write-offs. Damage such as a track and/or a road wheel being shot off is repairable. Even when the armour is pierced by a Panzerfaust, it was a matter of patching the hole, cleaning up the interior (...) and re-issue the tank. Death Traps by Belton Cooper gives a good real-world insight on recovering and repairing knocked-out tanks.

According to the 1945 book "The Story of the 79th Armoured Division", these are tanks of "F" Squadron, 49APCR. Also, the 79 AD book mentions a total of 8 kangaroos being knocked out.

"F" Squadron is interesting as it was a newly formed increment to the 49APCR just for the Rhine crossings. It was created from the 52nd Tank Squadron and fitted with Rams in the first week of March 1945.

According to the 49th APCR Honour Role, Sergeant Kenneth Frederick Webber of "F" Sqn was killed on 30 March 1945. He must have been killed at 't Woold, he is buried at the nearby Winterswijk Cemetery.
Possibly Trooper Edwin Barryll Burbidge, who died on 1 April 1945, was mortally wounded during this battle too?

H.

[Marco C.]

Originally posted by John McGillivray
I have found this photo taken at the same location as the photo posted by Hanno. It is from the Concord book “British Tanks of WWII (2) Holland & Germany 1944/1945”

It was taken in the town of Kranenburg on the way to Cleve. The troops are from the 2nd Bn The Gordon Highlanders, 15th (Scottish) Division. There are two other photos of Ram Kangaroos carrying 15th Div troops in this book, however the authors do not give any source for these photos.

Yes this Picture was taken in Kranenburg from Nijmegen richtung Cleve

Iam comming from Cleve near the Reichswaldforrest

[Mark W. Tonner]

Was looking for something and came across this photo:

Photo No.: BU 1625
Photographer: Smith (Sgt) No 5 Army Film & Photographic Unit
Collection Title: WAR OFFICE SECOND WORLD WAR OFFICIAL COLLECTION
Collection No.: 4700-30
Description: THE BRITISH ARMY IN NORTH-WEST EUROPE 1944-45
Churchill tanks and infantry in Ram Kangaroo personnel carriers assemble for an attack by 6th Middlesex Regiment and the 7th Hampshires against the villages of Putt and Waldenrath, 22 January 1945.

- if the description is correct, the Kangaroos pictured belong to 1 CACR ("A" Sqn) who lifted 7th Hampshires during their successful attacks on both Putt and Waldenrath on 22 Jan 45 (this was during Operation BLACKCOCK)

[Roddy de Normann]

Hi there -

Just to add an additional pic from my own collection...a Brit veh moving through Gemon, Germany on 2 Apr 45. The inf are from 7th Armd Div, prob 157 Bde moving out of the Ems line.

Roddy1011

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Roddy1011
Just to add an additional pic from my own collection...a Brit veh moving through Gemon, Germany on 2 Apr 45. The inf are from 7th Armd Div, prob 157 Bde moving out of the Ems line.

... where is the picture?

[Roddy de Normann]

Apologies - but I am totally defeated by how one is meant to post a pic on this Forum - not much use for those of us not so adept - shame really.

Roddy

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by Roddy1011
Apologies - but I am totally defeated by how one is meant to post a pic on this Forum - not much use for those of us not so adept - shame really.

Hi Roddy;

Send me your picture and I will post it to this thread on your behalf. I have just sent you my e-mail address by private message on this forum.

Cheers

[Bill Miller]

Aug 1945. Probably Op. Tractable. Testing Frame capture of Can Army Newsreel.