Gear change selector question

SDeMocko · #1 08-08-11, 19:09

Hi carrier folks. I think I have run into another unanticipated problem. This is due to not having the original transmission and making use of one that I assume came from some model of truck. I probably should have noticed it a lot earlier but seeing as I was only recently the lucky recipient of most of the gear shift parts, thanks Michael, it didn’t occur to me. You can see in the before pics that a lot of drive line brake stuff was bolted to the right side of the Trans case. I have gone through rebuilt and reassembled the Trans as I received it, but now I notice that the threaded bosses should be on the left side to mount the horse shoe support. I do know that I will have to do something with the gear selector shaft as that is not right either but back to the top hat casting question. Does anyone know if I can reassemble the guts in a mirror image and just rotate the casting around so that threaded bosses are pointing out toward the left? My guess is I’m going to have to source a different style top casting. Thanks for your time in answering my question.

Stephen DeMocko
So Cal, USA
’44 MKII

Marc van Aalderen · #2 08-08-11, 21:26

Hi Stephen,

I do not think this is possible. For one, the holes for the detent balls and springs are on one side only. The chance that you can rotate the shift forks (front to rear) on the rails and the rails in the cover (left to right, to keep the detent slots on the correct cover end) are probably nill. Best thing to do might be to empty the cover and first see if the bolt holes in the case line up. Then try to re-assemble the rest. Best of luck.

Cheers,

Lynn Eades · #3 08-08-11, 21:27

I very much doubt you can reverse it. This top is a later model with the internal reverse spring thing. You shold get the right bit with the correct gear lever etc.

colin jones · #4 09-08-11, 00:07

Morning/evening!! Just a suggestion, if you can't get the correct top, then it would be very easy to simply make a new support for your gear selector. It can always be changed later and it looks all nice and painted and won't be in view after the covers go on.

Colin.

John Mackie · #5 09-08-11, 12:35

Hi all, I have come across several different gearbox tops. Appart from the latch type and the spring loaded one I have seen them with the bosses on the right hand or left hand sides. My Ford Canadia parts book lists BBC 7222 41-45 and C41T 7222 45-47 my Aust carrier parts book lists it as BB 7222 I am shure there must be others. I doubt it will be possible to reverse the housing.
John.

SDeMocko · #6 02-05-12, 00:25

Carrier folks,

I’m not sure anyone had a concern about this other than me but, I did find that a carrier specific gear change hat would bolt up ok to a non carrier trans housing. I know that wasn’t what I had originally been asking about when I started the thread, but it is still good to know info. I know this pic shows a lot of non original stuff going on in my engine bay like the 8BA engine to the wrong color trans and on and on….. Thanks for the loan of the top hat Mike.
I did have one question. Does anyone know what the thread pitch is on the top of the gear select shaft? I have measured it to be 18 tpi but that is a bunch odd so I was looking for conformation. I made up a nice nut ½”BSF but the shaft is not 16pitch. Thanks for the help

PS. I know the nut is listed in the book as 1/2" BSF but the nuts I made using that tap are off.

Stephen DeMocko
’44 MKII
So Cal, USA

Lynn Eades · #7 02-05-12, 09:43

The carriers are built using BSF threads, but the Ford built stuff is still UNF,UNC.
Your gearbox top is post war withe the sprung loaded internal reverse detent.
You can mahe up a plate to bolt on the lid (left side) to support the short end of the gimble. The australian carriers have just that. It bolts on with longer lid bolts, as their gearboxes never had the appropriate cast lugs on the left side.
I can check the gear lever thread, and height from the ball to where the bottom of the gimble sits , if you want.

SDeMocko · #8 02-05-12, 17:13

Lynn,
I didn’t have any problems with bolting the top on I just need to make a nut part number C01UC 103010. It says in the manual that it is 1/2" BSF but I am questioning the 16 TPI part. I think that it is a misprint and that the thread is actually different maybe 18 TPI.
Stephen

rob love · #9 02-05-12, 22:16

Use a pitch gauge, but if you don't have one just put a ruler against the threads and count how many are in an inch.

Lynn Eades · #10 02-05-12, 22:45

I have checked, and the thread on the bottom of the column is 12 tpi, which is BSW -( British coarse) which will be 1 thread different than UNC.

SDeMocko · #11 02-05-12, 23:57

BSC... Interesting. I had no Idea. Thanks guys.
Stephen

The Bedford Boys · #12 03-05-12, 09:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by SDeMocko

BSC... Interesting. I had no Idea. Thanks guys.
Stephen

BSC is British Standard Cycle thread, used in motorcycles. Most of these are 26 TPI, with a few exceptions.

Lynn Eades · #13 03-05-12, 11:22

Alex,

I was trying to make it easy for Stephen, who, being from the U.S.of A.,is probably not very familiar with British thread forms.
While you are being so precise, it would be more accurate to say that BSC threads were used in some old leaky motorcycles.

How is that carrier coming together?

Stephen, as has been pointed out, It is referred to as Whitworth, or British Standard Whitworth.
1/2" is the problem size as it is 12 TPI where as 1/2" UNC has 13 TPI.
The other common sizes 1/4", 5/16", 3/8", and 7/16" are the same TPI as their counterparts (BSW and UNC)
This is not the case with the fine threads (BSF and UNF)

SDeMocko · #14 03-05-12, 20:08

Lynn,
I have one of the newer Triumph Bonnevilles. No Whitworth threads but it does leak. Does that count?

Thank you all for the info. I am not sure where I would be without all of you. Lynn, thank you for asking about my progress. I did have an exciting weekend just past as I put the track back on after about a 1-1/2. I just need to get the engine running right. Some seats and armor might be a good Idea too.
Stephen DeMocko
’44 MKII
So Cal, USA

SDeMocko · #15 04-05-12, 17:11

I dont know guys, 4-1/2 threads over 1/4" sure looks like 18 pitch to me. A forum friend (Thanks Mike) says the nut from the bottom of the steering column goes on ok. I have one coming from Brian A. (thanks Brian). Maybe its 20 but it seems less as it was a bit hard to get my calipers in there especally as i use them as scribs sometimes. Ends are warn a bit.

Stephen DeMocko
'44 MKII
So Cal, USA

Lynn Eades · #16 04-05-12, 22:01

Your last post caused me to look at another column that I have, and that one is 3/4" dia. x 16 tpi, which is UNF thread.

If you are buying a bearing for here be careful with the size.
The ring on the floor and the inner diameter can be different sizes.
The imperial self alingning bearing is difficult to find and can be expensive.
I have one that so far, I have been un able to remove from the column.

The Australian carriers used metric sizing and use a cheap and easy to get 6304? (check) bearing.

This leads me to mention that I have found on Canadian carriers, that there are bolts which are hybrids (I am talking original bolts)
Some are UNF threads, that fit the British spanners, and some are BSF that fit American sized spanners. I'd be interested to hear comments from others on this.

Michael R. · #17 05-05-12, 02:08

The nut that fits on the top of the transmission shift lever should be a 1/2 B.S.F. hex., (slotted). The part number is CO1UC 103010. It is also known as U.K. No. MT5-9936. Reference FUC-03. Looking at Chilwell, the LV6 MT5 P/N 9936, Nut-Slotted 1/2" appears. That 1/2 B.S.F. nut can be found on Carriers in the No.1, 2, 2A and 3 series, with Mk.'s I, II and III.

Should a 1/2" B.S.F. nut fit a thread count of 16 TPI ?

I previously mis-identified TL2868, Nut, slotted that fits on the bottom of the steering column when describing one of the three locations where the 1/2" B.S.F. nut, part number CO1UC 103010 appears.

Lynn Eades · #18 05-05-12, 03:50

Yes. 1/2" BSF is 16 tpi

SDeMocko · #19 07-05-12, 17:14

Guys,
I know it says in the manual that the nut that goes on the gear selector shaft is ½” BSF, but at least for the shaft in my hand it is not 16 pitch. The nut I made using the ½” BSF 16 pitch tap in the pic will not fit on the shaft. The second picture also shows a thread file with the 16 pitch rotated in contact with the shaft threads and you can see that they do not match.
Stephen

Lynn Eades · #20 07-05-12, 21:12

Now we know what its not.(16 tpi) We now need to know what it is.
Is it 13 tpi Whitworth, or 12 tpi UNC, or something else?

SDeMocko · #21 07-05-12, 22:10

Lynn,
I think it's 18 TPI.
Stephen

Lynn Eades · #22 08-05-12, 09:15

I have checked what I have, which is 16 TPI x 1/2" which is BSF.

18 tpi x 1/2" doesn't match up with anything that I know of.
Sorry, I cant help any more.

SDeMocko · #23 08-05-12, 19:54

Lynn,
I wonder if there is something odd about the shaft in my hands (That doesnt sound right LOL!)like it was modified but it doesnt look like it. You are right it makes perfect sense that it would be 16 pitch but the 16 pitch nuts I made dont fit. Plus like you have stated 18 TPI is very very strange but look at my pics. I have attached 4 pics one shows that the shaft dia clearly is 1/2" dia. One shows how far off 16 TPI is using a thread gauge. One shows that 18 TPI is pretty close and would likely work. Lastly a Metric thread gauge with 1.5 mm Pitch looks right on the money but that makes no sense to me.
Stephen