Painting tyres

[Keith Webb]

Just came across another example of tyres being painted as part of a camouflage scheme - this pic originally came from the Technical Director of camouflage, Dept of Home Security in Sydney.

The question is was it an example of what to do or not to do?

[cliff]

Also unusual is the filler beneath the chassis behind the cab. I have not seen this before either.

Cheers
Cliff

[Keith Webb]

Hi Cliff

This is a strengthening plate; these were also used on some CMPs.

I meant to mention the ARN of this vehicle is C20929.

[cliff]

Originally posted by Keith Webb
Hi Cliff

This is a strengthening plate; these were also used on some CMPs.

I meant to mention the ARN of this vehicle is C20929.

Keith you would not happen to have any other information on this plate would you? like how far under the body did it go? Did it uprate the trucks load capacity? etc.

cheers
Cliff

[Keith Webb]

Not a lot of info. My F60L had it - it ran as far forward as the rear of the spring hangar, and from memory had another piece which ran just under the chassis rail, at right angles. They were very good for the propogation of rust.

As for uprating, that would be the normal assumption - they were used I think on many of the tippers as well... on the F60L I have a theory they were added when a winch was fitted. The F60L below was a winch truck and you can just see them there.

[cliff]

Thank you Keith.

cheers
Cliff

[Lang]

Keith,

I think you will find the stiffener plate was almost exclusively put on tippers because the hoist acted upon the unsupported section of the chassis between the axles. I don't think the fitting of a winch was cause for the stiffener as they react horizontally.

The blitz in your picture probably was a tipper at some time. It is hard to tell if the Chev is a tipper or not but the "U" clamps only go around the stiffener plate and the chassis, not up around the body channels leaving the body free to move, supporting a tipper identification for the truck.

Lang

[Rob van Meel]

On the painting of disruptive pattern paint, it was initially including the tyres.
Quoted from my Britsih Airborne jeeps:
Military Training Pamphlet no. 20 titled 'Disruptive painting of vehicles', dated June 1939, describes a patterning in broad bands, "diagonal-horizontal in general layout". The two colours used on this pattern were, according to Michael Taylor: G3 Green, clearly the Khaki Green No. 3 of ACI 96, as the basis and G4 (Dark Green No. 4) used for the disruptive patterning.

ACI no. 540, dated 1 June, 1940, after noting that especially spare tyres were painted in a disruptive pattern states: Disruptive paint has an injurious effect on tyres, causing the rubber to perish. Care will, therefore, be taken to ensure that when vehicles are being treated the paint is not allowed to come into contact with the tyres.

ACI 1559 of 23 August 1941 states that the spray paint Khaki Green No. 3 and Dark Tarmac No. 4 was injurious to canvas covers and hoods and that in future camouflage paint, bituminous emulsion, SCC Nos. 1A and 7 should be used instead.

ACI 2202 of 8 November 1941 confirms that only bituminous emulsion paint should be used on canvas covers and hoods. It states the preferred shade for dark patterning as the Dark Brown SCC No. 1A but "failing that", SCC No. 14 could be used. According to Michael Taylor SSC No. 14 was a matt black.

On the "Mickey Mouse" pattern Michael Taylor states: "A distinctive style of disruptive painting technique, known as "Mickey Mouse Ear' because it consisted of overlapping black circles of differing diameters does not appear in any of the official pamphlets so far identified, although it does confirm in a general sense to the basic requirement that top and bottom surfaces should be painted in a dark colour and any patterning should carry over edges and corners. It is entirely possibly that we are looking here at a scheme devised under the authority of 21 Army Group for use in its own operational area and therefore not mentioned in the official War Office publications." However this pattern seem to have widespread use on 1 A/B Division vehicles.

Rob

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by cliff
Also unusual is the filler beneath the chassis behind the cab. I have not seen this before either.

Cheers
Cliff

This F60L Crane truck (Still for sale, BTW) has the strengthening plate fixed to the chassis rail.

You can also see the extent of these plates on the Maple Leaf Chev chassis in the Egyptian Desert.

[cliff]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
This F60L Crane truck (Still for sale, BTW) has the strengthening plate fixed to the chassis rail.

You can also see the extent of these plates on the Maple Leaf Chev chassis in the Egyptian Desert.

Tony the Maple Leaf Chev chassis stiffening is more a double chassis rail and was an intrical part of the chassis similer to the F60H photos that Clive put up from the Ford Archives.

The plate on the Chevrolet that Keith has shared with us is clearly an 'add on' as it is attached with 'U' bolts the same as the supporting rails of a typical rear body application would be.

For me it is still an unusual concept and as Lang said I can see the sense in it being fitted to tippers especially.

Hmmmm too late for my CMP (Aust) tipper model but maybe I will do a MCP Chev conversion with one
This is a conversion using the Italeri Chev 15cwt kit.

cheers
Cliff .

[jim sewell]

Great model Cliff .

Well done .

Regards
Jim S.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Keith Webb
The question is was it an example of what to do or not to do?

Ref. Australian Army camouflage and formation markings

[Jon Skagfeld]

Originally posted by cliff
This is a conversion using the Italeri Chev 15cwt kit.

Cliff:

I can only assume that the kit you used was other than the clapped out moulding that I experienced during assembly.

I got to be very frustrated with the lack of parts- mating and existence of excessive flash, that I put the kit away, perhaps to attack it at another time.

I especially wanted to complete the model since it would replicate my 1:1 Chev.

Perhaps I'll fare better with the Czech bagged kit.

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally posted by Keith Webb
Just came across another example of tyres being painted as part of a camouflage scheme - this pic originally came from the Technical Director of camouflage, Dept of Home Security in Sydney.

The question is was it an example of what to do or not to do?

Keith
This painting of tires was common..
Here is a CCKW in snow pattern..

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by cliff
Tony the Maple Leaf Chev chassis stiffening is more a double chassis rail and was an intrical part of the chassis similer to the F60H photos that Clive put up from the Ford Archives.

The plate on the Chevrolet that Keith has shared with us is clearly an 'add on' as it is attached with 'U' bolts the same as the supporting rails of a typical rear body application would be.

cheers
Cliff .

The plate on both the Chevs in Keith's pic and the Egyptian desert have the plate rivetted onto the chassis rail and are integral to the chassis. The "U" bolts you can see in Keith's pic don't hold the plate in place, they ARE the "U" bolts holding the body on. The upper beam with the small scalloped cutouts is the timber subframe of the body.

[Lang]

Tony,

I think the u-bolts go around the stiffener plate/chassis rivetted unit and up over the wooden bearers on top of the chassis, not around the body itself. That main wooden bearer has cutouts on the lower side to clear rivets and attachments to allow it to sit flush along the chassis rails.

Above the wooden main bearer you can see further cutouts in the actual body frame to go over the u-bolts. The model of the blitz tipper shows the set-up. The chassis has a bearer on top permanantly attached with u-bolts and the body, with its own longitudinal structure, rests on that when down.

Lang

[cliff]

Originally posted by Jon Skagfeld
Cliff:

I can only assume that the kit you used was other than the clapped out moulding that I experienced during assembly.

I got to be very frustrated with the lack of parts- mating and existence of excessive flash, that I put the kit away, perhaps to attack it at another time.

I especially wanted to complete the model since it would replicate my 1:1 Chev.

Perhaps I'll fare better with the Czech bagged kit.

Jon that is the only kit there is of the CMP 13 cab in plastic apart from the gun tractor kit from the same maker/molds.

You may have got a bad kit which happens, but in my opinion for a 30 plus year old kit it has good detail even if it has a lot of excess flash and a few too many sink holes. I am hoping that Italeri re-releases it so I can get some more as I have more CMP models on my list to do than I have kits.

I also know from experience that a lot of the Eastern Europe kits are as bad or worse then the CMP 15cwt kit.

Thanks for the comments on my model I appreciate them.

Cheers
Cliff