2007 at the Hammond Barn

[RHClarke]

-1 degrees C at 0730 hrs...the mud and mire was frozen and hard enough for civy pattern vehicle traffic. It was nice to be able to drive to the barn after Bob's great sink hole adventure. Good work Bob and Grant on filling in the hole.

Bob and Grant got busy on cab flooring. Several donor vehicles and Bob's original floor plates got the once over. They spent a lot of time trying to loose up bolts and screws. In the end, everything yielded to the hot wrench.

[RHClarke]

Prior to lunch we had some downhome visitors. Jim and Bruce Mackie dropped by to fill us in on their goings on. After a carefully footed tour of the barn yard, they headed off for some family events.

[RHClarke]

I spent some time reattaching my HUP's bumper - the results were not too encouraging, but not to be unexpected given the abuse the old girl went thru...The frame or the bumper needs some adjustment. Next week we will determine which (or both?) and give the frame a twist - a la Dirk!

We headed down to Chez Marie to slap on the feed bag and to see if our new waitress was feeling OK. Bob noticed that she looked somewhat swollen up, but had the common sense not to comment to her about it...

Following lunch we headed back to the barn. After some painting and general fiddling around, we made plans for the next weekend at the barn and the future. Spring is in the air, and a road trip is long overdue (relax Bill, we will probably be heading west...).

[cliff]

it looks to me from the photo that the passenger side chassis rail is bent up. Looks good though.

Cheers
Cliff

[Bob Carriere]

Everything looked fine until the bumper was attached.... the frame seems a bit twisted up on the passenger side......

Any suggestions from our expereinced audience...??? I know how Dirk took the curve out of his cab 12 with the back end of a dumpster........

I would like to put a leg under the frame on the driver's side and apply the weight of the front end of the 8000 pound tractor using the bucket....... but I am not sure if we should be disconnecting the spring packs or not....... it may mean removing the engine and removing both springs from the front end of the frame.....

Any suggestions....??? maybe we should consider taking it in town with the trailer and having a body shop put it on a frame machine......

.....or we just take enough air out of one tire that the truck will look level.......

Took two good men to get the bumper in place....

[Bob Carriere]

..... I kept busy salvaging the floor from Don's cab 12 which is far less rusted than my cab 11..... at least you can still see the buttons and bar pattern on the floor plates.

We have now decide.... by consensus ...... that it would be better to finish and install the T-case while we have more room to work around and inside the frame......

So we had to sort out the parts...... and continue the rebuilding that was stopped last Fall. As usual we read and re read the manual and proceeded carefully.

[Bob Carriere]

...... never seen so many shims...... lucky we had tied each cover with the relevant stack of shims.......

We worked on the speedometer drive centere cover... no sweat.

The we tackled the front axle disconnect tower or protrusion that was previously assembled...... had to cut new gaskets...... and clean the shims from some surface rust on 600 grit sand paper.

Remember we are using new bearing and new races...... I tried to assemble with just the two thickest shims...... bearing were to tighly loaded to turn by and....... it was not until all the shims and paper gasket was installed...... as per the manual..... that the shaft woudl turn free by hand.... took the flange off and installed a new seal...lightly oiled....... tighetened the big 1 1/2 inch nut and installed a new cotter pin.... one part done......

[Bob Carriere]

This is the installed front axle disconnect which allows 2 wheel drive.....

All nice and tight.....

[Bob Carriere]

Easter weekend at the barn......

Some weekend..... rain, snow, windy and cold..... even the Easter Bunny was complaining.

Being a high holiday I did my thing with the inlaws outside of Toronto....... truned out very good as I connected with Dennis Walker...... after a 2 hour tour of his stuff in the filed and the barn and freezing my butt..... I have concluded that all the CMP trcuks, parts, etc are not all on Australia....... it may be warmer there granted but this is the biggest stash in one place I have seen so far..... and apparently I did not see it all...... weather permitting I will return with camera in hand. To his credit Dennis was very patient and the more I droodle the more he showed me.

The boys played in the barn Friday and Saturday in my absence but failed to file a detailed report.

So my barn day was Monday which is a holiday for hard working simple servants.

Remember were we left off with the T-case...... well has usual oncassembled I noticed that the two speed sliding gears were not messing properly..... so the cover came apart again......

Lucky I only glued one side of the gasket with silicone.

[Bob Carriere]

This is the shifting gear that gives high and low speed on the T-case........

The gear slides back and forth on a splined shaft........ held partly up with a screwdriver....

[Bob Carriere]

The sliding gear must fit on the splined shaft in such a fashion that will allow it to mesh with the inner gear of the large bottom gear.......

If you look carefully at the inside of the bottom gear you can see the inner cut teeth........ when I installed mine I didn't know the spline had only one way to fit......

[Bob Carriere]

Here is what it looks like when fully meshed into the lower gear...


....... Now I know......

[Bob Carriere]

One of the things I brought back for Phil Waterman....

Two original scotches still in a crate.....obviously repacked in the fifties....... nice part is the crate contained one welded and one riveted.....

Here is the crate....

[Bob Carriere]

Here is side by each...... the riveted one being the older and more complex design....... it has a date stamp. The other is all welded and would be easier to replicate.......

[Bob Carriere]

.....same thing from a different angle.....

[Bob Carriere]

Those anyone know what the CC & F stands for.....

[Bob Carriere]

....looks like 3/16 steel.... edges rolled over.....

[Bob Carriere]

....the heavily welded one......

[Bob Carriere]

Will be sending you some high res photo by regular email......

..... I assume Phil will eventually have then measured and sketched for reproduction in a few months......

If any one needs high res photo to work from let me know..

BooBee

[Paul Singleton]

CC&F stands for Canadian Car and Foundry formerly located in Fort William Ontario which is now part of Thunder bay. Their major manufacturing was for the railroad industry in the form of railcars and parts but also built buses and trolley buses.

[david moore]

Adding to Paul's comment - CC&F now part of Bombardier I believe. Still making railcars - made the TTC subway cars.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Bob Carriere
Those anyone know what the CC & F stands for.....

Canada Car and Foundry

Bob, thanks for the excellent pics and updates you and the other boys working at the Hammond Barn give us. Between having lunch and opening crates of Scotch you guys really make progress on the trucks

Hanno

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Bob

Opened your e-mail before coming to MLU. What a find! Will have to spend some real time looking at the photos and sending questions. Given the weather here in New Hampshire this April think I may have to come north for Spring.

Cheers

[Phil Waterman]

Originally posted by Bob Carriere
Easter weekend at the barn......


.....Remember were we left off with the T-case...... well has usual oncassembled I noticed that the two speed sliding gears were not messing properly..... so the cover came apart again......

Lucky I only glued one side of the gasket with silicone.

Your right about having to do things twice, I’ve got to disassemble the transfer case on Pattern 12 oil leaks, not around the shafts as might be expected but between the shims. So as you reassembly the transfer case, with all those shims think about oil leaking between the shims. Don't think it is a good idea to put gasket cement between, concerned that it will squeeze down over time and screw up the bearing clearance. I think part of the problem is that the modern gear oil is part synthetic and while it has the lubrication properties of the old thick gear oil it is actually a lot thinner. So how do you seal a stack shims? Does any of our group have a suggestion for a very thin sealant to use between the shims.

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Phil

We have discussed the same concerned and have NO solution to offer.

We are concerned that the shim pack will act literally as a "capilary" to allow oil to leak. Some of my shims had developed a rust bloom..... which we carefully removed by rubbing against a 600 grit sand paper...... pretty tricky with a 3 mil shim....

I had carefully tied every shim pack to each cover. Because I was installing new bearings and race I tried to eliminate a few shim.... but in every case the bearing load was too much to turn the shaft by hand until all shims plus one paper gasket where installed.

I have learned... from having to do everything twice to silicone glue only one side of the paper gasket...... we also discussed the value of the one paper gasket..... when you have 5 or 6 shims.... and where should the darn paper gasket be located..... as if it made any difference.

As you mentioned synthetic oil has a tendency to leak more easily and putting silicone between each shim will definitely add to the thickness.......

Should we worry or is it to be part of the anti rust process....??

Any advice from our esteemed experienced world wide audience????

Just to add insult ot injury...... I either am short 4 bearing races or misplaced them as usual...... so I am off to order 4 more and a much needed speedy sleeve for the PTO shaft to prevent chewing up the new seal....

It never ends......

BooB

[Bob Carriere]

Bonjour Hanno

Thanks for the comments...... we are striving to share our successessssss and screw ups.....hoping that the information can be used by others......

Can you adjust the "hit" box for this new BARN thread to show the recent visit since it began its new life....... will see if we can break 6000+ hits again.....

Thanks everyone for reading and sending us advice, comments and information.

BooB

[Grant Bowker]

They also made Hawker Hurricanes and I think they also did Noordyn Norseman aircraft. From scotches designed to firmly stick trucks to the ground to aircraft to act as flying trucks. One of the original you pay, we manufacture companies??

[Phil Waterman]

Originally posted by Bob Carriere
Hi Phil

We have discussed the same concerned and have NO solution to offer.

.....We are concerned that the shim pack will act literally as a "capilary" to allow oil to leak. Some of my shims had developed a rust bloom..... which we carefully removed by rubbing against a 600 grit sand paper...... pretty tricky with a 3 mil shim....

I had carefully tied every shim pack to each cover. Because I was installing new bearings and race I tried to eliminate a few shim.... but in every case the bearing load was too much to turn the shaft by hand until all shims plus one paper gasket where installed.

I have learned... from having to do everything twice to silicone glue only one side of the paper gasket...... we also discussed the value of the one paper gasket..... when you have 5 or 6 shims.... and where should the darn paper gasket be located..... as if it made any difference.

As you mentioned synthetic oil has a tendency to leak more easily and putting silicone between each shim will definitely add to the thickness.......

Should we worry or is it to be part of the anti rust process....??



BooB

I think the paper goes to the outside just under the bearing cap. Now as to the leakage being acceptable as being normal. I'd like to agree but mine is leaking to the point of keeping oil in the transfer case is a problem. Going to check with the local heavy tractor shop to see if they can suggest something.

As to the speed sleeve for the PTO, I did all of the input and out put shafts, seemed to have helped with leakage at the shafts.

[Mike Timoshyk]

Just want to add a little gas to the fire wrt the shim discussion.

In the past I was a Marine Engineer and worked on a large variety of steam driven machinery. During the course of some routine maintenance we opened a feed pump that had a smooth face to face surface. Interestingly there was no gasket or shim so to speak, however there was remnants of red lead paint. Having questioned the CERA (chief engineering articifer) he indicated that yes it was a "old" solution to leakage. Paint one face with red lead and place the other half together with the paint still fresh and wet being careful not to use "thick old paint".

There that's my 2 cents while still waiting for my wife's passport (which was mailed 19 Jan 07...but that is another story. GGRRRR

cheers

Mike Timoshyk

[Bob Carriere]

My old dad use to have a small half pint container of some kind of GooH...... smelled like shellac but had a cooper dust mixed.....he said it was used on "hand lapped surfaces" for aircraft engines when no gasket was used..... i used what was left of the can on the halves of VW engines and they never leaked....... I suppose read lead.... and I mean the real kind when quart weighed about ten pounds who probably serve the same purpose.

According to my bearing guy... he told me that unless the shims were heavily creased or krinkled the bolts should exert sufficient pressure on the shims that they should not leak out. I will bow to his experience... after all he is as old as me and more expereinced in the trade...... he cautioned against using any heavy sealant like silicone... less we wish to run on loose bearings. He admitted being partialled to a light coat of diluted shellac between shims but when reminded how hot the T-case could run and the use of synthetic lubricant....... he wished me good luck....... bottom line youhave to respect 1940 technology and be prepared to top off fluids as required.... after all they recommended full lub and oil changes at 1000 miles......

Live with it.... so they leak little...... they still run and I doubt my 2oo5 Furd will be running in 65 years....

BooBee