WW2 camo colours

[Mike K]

You are looking at a original WW2 disruptive camo paint scheme found on a 1941 Morris Commercial PU . Although very faded , the two tone effect is clearly visible . Colours may have been G3 and the Nobles Dark Tarmac , or G5 dark green . The spots of yellow are the remains of the desert yellow applied over the green camo scheme .

Mike

[Tony Smith]

The doors on my F60S had many many layers of paint on them and way down deep was the original camo of Aust Khaki no3 and Light Stone BSC61.

[Tony Smith]

Someone on another post mentioned "What an interesting story these vehicles could tell if they could talk of their travels". Besides the WW2 camo scheme, there is a couple of coats of Deep Bronze Olive (in gloss and matt), a layer of Bush Fire Brigade red (with signwriting) and finally, Bush Fire Brigade orange. What an interesting life!

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Tony

Any chance of a scraping sample of your Light Stone. We have two different interpretations of this colour in Adelaide neither of which is based on an original sample.

Also the KG3 for a comparison with mine.

Thanks

Bob

[Tony Smith]

Or it could also be Portland Stone BSC64 which was available as an alternative disruptive colour. The paint on the doors is very thin now after being sanded to within a micron of it life, so I think a scraping would not have much chance of sucess. I have compared the paint with modern standard colour chips and sand colour (Light stone BSC61 or Portland stone BSC64??) closely approximates to US FS595 color 30277 or 30318.

Perhaps some of our British friends could tell us if colour chips for paint are available from a reputable source (I'm thinking British Standards or ISO suppliers), not just a paint manufacturer who wants to sell you something off his shelf?

[Tony Smith]

This colour does not seem to have any close match with the FS595 color range. The colour seems to sit somewhere between FS595 color 33070 and 34088. It is actually very similar to current Aust Army Olive Drab 146/1.

Here is the colour match:

[Mike K]

Years ago I found a WW2 can of Light Stone . Colin Anderson of Shepparton , also found some of the same cans . I am sure he painted his Pontiac ute in this paint . I opened the can and it was enamel , still useable . A funny square shaped can .

At colins auction last March , one of the lots was these cans of WW2 paint Light Stone . Albert Bowden bought them I think.

The colour was much like you see on restored vehicles . The Hedges SWB Chev 4X2 is pretty much spot on .



Mike

[Lang]

Tony or Mike,

Do you have a good guess of a modern equivilent to the desert sand colour of the Australian middle East vehicles. From photos, too distant for details, they seem to have replaced the disruptive pattern of early vehicles with the all-over yellow. The spraygun is itching to go but there is nothing worse than premature ejaculaion and having to do it over again.

This damn Dodge seems to come up on every thread!

Lang

[Tony Smith]

These two colours were used interchably in ME, but Light Stone was the more predominant one. See photos above, Portland Stone (a cream/tan colour) is somewhere between US Standard colour FS595 30277and FS595 30318. I haven't been able to compare an original sample of Light Stone (a cream/yellow colour), so cannot give a standard number for that. A source for these colours is Valspar paints, who have the current army contract for paint supplies and can produce matte, satin or gloss colours to milspec standard in enamel or two-pack urethanes, no fillers or flattening agents. They will make paint to FS595 colour standards, or to other colour standards like British BSC or Aust WW2 IF YOU CAN PROVIDE A CLOLOUR CHIP OR SAMPLE. Valspar's Sydney office is (02) 9389 1111, ask for Ian Tulloch. They also have branches in other states, but I don't have their Bris details.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi all

Until I can get a decent colour sample from a vehicle I have been using a colour as per a modellers' site. They suggest Light Stone is B.S 381-1930 with the model paint equivalents of Humbrol colour 121, Model Master colour E6213, Tamiya colour XF57. I just took Humbrol 121 to my paint matcher and had a batch made. Some people think its a bit too light but I don't any other standard at the moment.

Bob

[Max Hedges]

The paint we used on our chev 4x2 was a copy of the colour used by the war memorial in Canberra.
Tony I have those books now for you.
Max

[Lang]

Thanks Tony
Lang

[Mike K]

Mike Starmer suggests :

using the 1930 BS381c chart as a sample

61 Light Stone

Humbrol numbers : use 8 parts No.74 to 1 part No. 26

Mike

[Lang]

The great Australian WW2 desert colour question has been solved (at least to my satisfaction!)

I went out and bought a shopping bag full of various model paints to test the numerous suggestions given above plus others locally.

I took cards painted with each colour to a club meeting where 46 expert and not so expert people selected what they considered to be the correct colour. It was a blind test and each person did not see the colour picked by anyone else. The results were overwhelming - 37 out of the 46 picked the same colour.

Contenders were:

Humbrol 121
Humbrol 74 X eight parts + 26 X 1 part
Humbrol 74 X Seven parts + 26 X 2 parts
Humbrol 93
Tamiya XF-57
Revell SM 314

The score: Revell SM 314 thirty seven votes, Humbrol 121 five votes, Humbrol mixes four votes. What is more important is the cook and both daughters went straight to Revell when shown the cards - it must be right.

Good enough for me! I had 4 litres of two pack satin finish SM 314 colour made up for the Dodge today.

[Jim Burrill]

Ok, so do we first paint a base coat of satin or semi-gloss, then flat? or ????

[Lang]

Jim,

The original was definitely chalky flat but I am taking this vehicle through 15 countries and you can imagine what the finger marks and oil stains would be like by the time I got to Normandy!

I have always painted my vehicles satin finish (hard surface but with the shine removed) which brings them up with a bit of soapy water and removes oil and hand stains easily (once flat has had oil or even fuel spilt on it that is the end).

Your paint supplier has flattening agent (a clear liquid) which he will put into the paint in any ratio to get everything from a Rolls Royce shine to coloured chalk finish according to your wishes. Batches can be repeated exactly from can to can with liquid but very hard with chalk powder.

All this business about putting talcum into the paint is old hat. Not only is it messy and time consuming it breaks down the structure of the paint and I am told makes it hygroscopic as well so you finish up with the potential for rust. Even a hard rub with a wet cloth takes the top off the "rough" surface leaving your rag marks there forever. I suppose modern paints are so vastly superior to 1940's stuff that show vehicles which weren't going to be continuously used and were parked in covered areas could live with handsful of chalk in the mixture.

I have had great lasting success with well used jeeps by just using cheap gloss car enamel but instead of thinners used petrol. It knocks the shine off and leaves a resilient satin finish.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Lang

Thanks for the effort, but one final question before I buy a sample of Revel SA 34, what was this colour compared with? Did you have an original sample of Light Stone or was this an "I believe this is what it is".

To utilise my Itelligence training, the inference is Revel SM 34, what are the premises leading to that inference?

Bob

[Lang]

Bob,

The colour is SM 314, very close to your Humbrol 121 but a bit darker.

One of our members brought a headlight off a monkey face blitz which reputedly is a middle east veteran. When pulled apart it had what seems to be a very original section of whatever the desert colour was (unaffected by light) Light Stone?

I really do think we are are all playing with ourselves a bit over this subject as there must have been several manufacturers using slightly different materials. It was all eye matched (no spectrometers or computer matching in those days). Some cans were stirred well others not at all. Some vehicles had 4 coats others a minimum coating. Some were washed down with water, others with soap and still others with kerosine or petrol to get rid of oil stains, instantly changing the colour forever.

All different brands and types of thinners were used.

There is nobody to collect the bet but I would put my life's savings on the possibility that if a brand new Blitz from the Ford factory and another from the GM plant were parked together in the sunlight, blind Freddy could see the supposedly identical standard colour was a shade or two different!

There is a huge difference between what somebody writes down on an instruction and what comes out the factory door with neither the writer of the directive nor the paint manufacturer having any control over the circumstances of the application in the field.

To put it quite boldly NOBODY can say that this colour or that colour is wrong unless they by some miracle had a perfect colour correct photo of at least half a dozen brand new vehicles, from different manufacturers taken in 1942. Such photo quality did not exist and as I said above, if it did I am sure he would still have to average the colour.

A very famous Australian pilot, Guido Zuccoli, had an "expert" approach him on the first airshow outing of his beautifully restored Hawker Sea Fury fighter plane. The expert asked Guido why he painted the plane that colour when the "correct" colour was several shades lighter. Guido just turned to him and said quietly, "I am sorry it is he best I could do. What colour is your Sea Fury?"

If it feels good do it and ignore the comments from the peanut gallery.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Lang

I really do think we are are all playing with ourselves a bit over this subject as there must have been several manufacturers using slightly different materials.

Some cans were stirred well others not at all. Some vehicles had 4 coats others a minimum coating. Some were washed down with water, others with soap and still others with kerosine or petrol to get rid of oil stains, instantly changing the colour forever.

If it feels good do it and ignore the comments from the peanut gallery.

Lang,
Very well put...

When I worked in army workshops, you could look at the vehicle park and all of them would be in IRR green, but not one would be the same. Age, mud grimed in, oil stains, washed in diesel, hand painted or sprayed, you name it, there are no hard and fast rules to drab paint. Its a subject that is unlike classic cars with their more durable gloss finishes.

Richard

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Lang

I totally agree with you, paint interpretation is always a contentious issue. However I have always found that the more research undertaken giving a solid arguement will tend to stem the flow of mis-information, urban myths and personal dogmatic interpretation. I have had some comment that my interpretation of Light Stone (Humbrol 121)is a bit light, so now armed with your research I will look at the Revel colour.

I thank you for your arguement and especially the fact that it is based on an original colour sample. That to me is a "fait accomplie" ( or however it is spelt).

Bob

[Tony Smith]

Judge for yourselves!

Guido restored and displayed his aircraft for many years until his death in a restored warbird a couple of years ago. His collection has been taken over by his wife Lynette, who continues to fly, display and enlarge the collection!