Carrier Scout Mark 1 L

jim sewell · #1 21-05-08, 14:30

I am posting this message on behalf of an associate .

Quote:

Carrier Scout Mark 1L
C879 WD No T5329
Date 1939

History
Recovered from original owner in March 2008
Is it Thorneycroft manufactured ?
Seeking tracks, instument panel, parts/ workshop manual, gun mounting, and engine covers .
Was driven onto farm in 1947 following disposal from Nungarin Ordinance Depot.
Engine was removed for use in a farm truck
Has been fitted in-service with Aust pattern road wheels neatly machined to fit the narrow british pattern tracks/ sprockets .
The original side stowage box was recently found in a friends shed along with original gearbox and gearchange linkages.
Some camouflage clearly evident on lower hull.( drab olive/ light stone )
Any pic,s of original rear interior would be appreciated as would stowage diagrams.

Regards
Jim S.

Rob Beale · #2 21-05-08, 21:53

Could you get a pic of the other side please?

I have driven the Carrier Bren Mk II at Waiouru a few times. It would be great to compare the two, pity they are so far apart!

Rob

alleramilitaria · #3 22-05-08, 03:53

rob
i have a MKI and a MKII the only real diffrence is starting of the two. on a MKI you have a starter button and selonoid on the starter. on a MKII you have the pull handle on the left side. less to break.

im thinking of getting my 3rd carrier up and running soon, im thinking of moving the drivers station to the proper (USA) side on this one

thanks
dave

Rob Beale · #4 22-05-08, 07:03

The Scout Carrier and the Bren Carrier predate the Universal Carrier.

These are 3 man only, with one side open at the rear, Left side on a Scout, Right side on the Bren.

They are probably the rarest of the carriers (except for the contemporary Cavalry Carrier and the earlier prewar types)

Hence my wish to see the pics of the scout

Cheers
Rob

Rob Beale · #5 22-05-08, 07:07

Here's a pick of the Waiouru one.

(It has NZ fleet no on the left side, and T number on the right side)
Rob

alleramilitaria · #6 22-05-08, 07:16

yea rob i got that, thought you wanted to know what the diffrence between driveing them was, as you worded it. ow well

did that carrier have armor installed on the rear? i know about the scouts....

there was a rebuild system in the UK that took the older scout / MG carriers and rebuilt them to UC MKI standards, then there was another where they took MKIs and rebuilt them to MKII standards latter. was wondering if it could be a rebuild due to it looking like it had some armor on the rear at one time.

Rob Beale · #7 22-05-08, 11:29

I was looking at the first image in Jim's opening post, and I reckon there are remains of the original armour in the back right corner, which would have been similar to a universal. I would like to see a photo of the left side to see if that is similar to the right side of the Waiouru Bren, with only the track guard at the rear.

I have driven a Mk I in NZ, and was luck enough to get a drive in a Mk II at Beltring in 2001, thanks to Nigel Watson. Most of my carrier driving has been LP2 / 2A carriers.

The Bren I drove has the smaller motor in it, but is quite peppy due to the lower weight without the universals rear armour.

Rob

Lynn Eades · #8 22-05-08, 12:06

Please post a pile more detail photos.
That is a most amazing find. According to Nigels book it has hinged armour plate at the rear, in keeping with what see in the photo.
I note that the air ducting is rounded on the out side not two flat sides as found in a universal. I am suprised that it made it to this side of the world, and it may be the only Mk1 Scout left anywhere.

Lynn Eades · #9 22-05-08, 12:12

According to Nigels book," T5255 to T5550 (contract T6024) 296 units were built by Aveling Barford

Eric Szalanda · #10 22-05-08, 12:14

Jim,
It is good to see that another one has surfaced of these rare beasties in Oz.

Lynn Eades · #11 22-05-08, 12:21

The Scout looks like a universal when veiwed from the right side and from the left side, has the long box on the top of the guard.

jim sewell · #12 22-05-08, 12:41

More pictures .
Regards
Jim S.

Lynn Eades · #13 22-05-08, 12:51

Can you put up a picture of the I.D. plate?

Bob Moseley (RIP) · #14 22-05-08, 13:03

The driver's compartment especially where the instrument panel sits. As it was obtained from the original owner, after the military that is, what is its provenance and did the owner have any annecdotes or photographs?

Bob

jim sewell · #15 22-05-08, 16:48

Quote:

Can you put up a picture of the I.D. plate?

Thats all the pic's that I have , it will be some time before more would be available.
Regards
Jim S.

Rob Beale · #16 22-05-08, 21:10

What a beauty! Although many panels are cut, there is such a lot of the body still there.
I agree with Lynn about the hinged rear panel, you can see the hinges in the third pic!

Good luck with the restoration!

Rob

Philliphastings · #17 23-02-09, 05:20

Hello all,

After a VERY long absence from this forum I have at last found the time to return. The Mk 1 Scout Carrier has been moved to a suitable work area and the long ground up restoration has commenced at last.

I have been very lucky indeed in finding a number of parts and fittings here in WA for the vehicle.

I am still looking for an instrument panel in any condition, some more british pattern track, complete or random links, a suitable engine and the gear between the gearbox and rear axle.

I have some loose Australian Pattern bren gun Carrier parts to trade.

Cheers

Phill

cantankrs · #18 24-08-09, 06:51

Hi All,

Phill's posted some pics on CD that I'm uploading here for him.

These are generally front views

Regards

Alex

cantankrs · #19 24-08-09, 06:53

These are generally centre views

Regards

Alex

cantankrs · #20 24-08-09, 06:59

And these are rear, and a couple of others.

Phil can answer any questions, accept any advice or offers of parts.

Regards

Alex

Jordan Baker · #21 24-08-09, 17:14

Could you get some measurments for the canvas bag/holder on the inside of the stowage locker.

rob love · #22 24-08-09, 17:25

Good eye Jordan. I had one of these canvas pieces show up with my carrier when I bought it and always thought it was unrelated. I now know better.

Any idea what this holder was for?

Jordan Baker · #23 24-08-09, 17:41

i think the small bag was for either an oil bottle or a cleaning cord. the other part may have been another place to hold the bren spare parts bag.

Adame · #24 24-08-09, 17:45

Hi Rob

My understanding is that its an antenna holder (#19 set ) for the MK1 carriers it was mounted in the lid of the rear storage locker.

If Jordan wants I have one, I only live a short distance from him.

Cheers
Adam

Philliphastings · #25 25-08-09, 05:16

I feel quite certain that the canvas holder is for the Bren gun oil bottle and spares/tool kit, and this is confirmed by the Bren cleaning rod holder which you can see is also located under the stowage bin lid.

The Mk1 Scout was fitted for the Wireless set No 11, and there appears to have been no special provision made for the stowage of spare antenna or accessories above the carriage of the remote antenna, wireless set remote unit, spare valves case and spare parts case. When this vehicle was built the Wireless set No 19 had not yet come in to general service

This is also confirmed in Nigel Watson's brilliant book. Which I have almost worn out with constant reading !

Cheers

Phill

Philliphastings · #26 25-08-09, 05:25

While on the subject of Scout stowage, there is a Bren magazine bin attached to the rear of the bulkhead behind the driver, and facing the rear gunner/Wireless operator position, instead of the later mounting position of 45 degrees across the right track guard and right side armour plate.

There are two spring loops for either the bogie jacking bar or compressor junior just to the rear of the Bren mag bin and then four evenly spaced holes in the track guard behind that. Next towards the rear is the lower hull mounting frame for the Wireless set no 11 then the rear armour plate.

There seems to be no evidence of the usual flare pistol mounting bracket found on later carriers at the rear.

The folding rear armour flap carried another brass bren pintle and the hook end of the closing catch. there appears to have been no backrest for the crewman here unless it was somehow attached to the fixed armour plate.
This closing catch for the folding armour, as far as I can work out was the standard Mil spec catch also used on the side stowage box, battery box and engine covers and was attached to the right side armour plate.

Cheers

Phill

Lynn Eades · #27 25-08-09, 11:21

Sorry Phil, I'm a bit slack. I was going to post your pictures.Anyhow here is your Plate since it hasn't come up yet.

Nigel Watson · #28 30-08-09, 00:56

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

The Scout looks like a universal when veiwed from the right side and from the left side, has the long box on the top of the guard.

The Scout in the picture Lynn posts is most likely the prototype or certainly one of the first. It is based on the Machine Gun Carrier. Main recogniseable difference from the photograph is the lower position of the front track adjusting idler wheel, and the subsequent sloped mudguards over it. It looks as this great find that Jim shows has the early Bren features.
Wouldn't it be great if it turned out to be the one pictured entering Fort Capuzzi in North Africa?

Look forward to seeing it come to life.

Nigel

Philliphastings · #29 12-09-09, 16:56

Hello again Nigel,

Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.

I have been spending a lot of late nights examining Scout carrier pics from all over the world on the net with a strong magnifying glass. Apart from the inescapable fact that my Scout (RMY 682 or RMY 683) is within one or two digits of the Fort Capuzzi vehicle RMY 681, my left hand rear track guard is dented and distorted in an identical pattern to that shown in the Capuzzi photograph!
What are the chances they are one and the same vehicle ?

I would love to know for certain...

Cheers

Phill

Tony Smith · #30 13-09-09, 01:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by Philliphastings

Hello again Nigel,

Truth is sometimes stranger than fiction.

I have been spending a lot of late nights examining Scout carrier pics from all over the world on the net with a strong magnifying glass. Apart from the inescapable fact that my Scout (RMY 682 or RMY 683) is within one or two digits of the Fort Capuzzi vehicle RMY 681, my left hand rear track guard is dented and distorted in an identical pattern to that shown in the Capuzzi photograph!
What are the chances they are one and the same vehicle ?

I would love to know for certain...

Cheers

Phill

Nigel, do you have a higher resolution copy of the picture from your book? What is the source, might there be other identifying pics in the series?

Phil, Could post a comparison shot from the same angle to confirm the ID?

PS the name of the Fort is Capuzzo. It copped a bit of artillery and chipped part of the name in the masonry.