abandoned U/C carrier

[Gordons]

Over the past year I have posted pic of this U/C and thought another visit would produce more pic, amazing the tracks are unseized and roll up very nice, the body is excellent, no rust corrosion or damage other than the engine, drive line are removed, interesting enough there is a spare rear drive, both rear drives have had the ring and pinion gears removed, steering wheel has been removed and frt boggies are missing as are some of the rubber wheels, armour still in place as are some of the box's.

[Gordons]

A few more pic of 1942 U/C abandoned

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Er.... abandoned, eh.... Gordon, why is this not in your garage at this point?

[Gordons]

well its in a tricky place to try and retreive and this is why its still there, its on an island that is surounded by reefs in the summer and by very deep water and thin ice in winter, and its really only accessable in the month of March, when the snow melts and the ice is still strong, its just far enough from home to make it difficult to get out, helicopter is to expensive, can not get a barge in there and no one wants to risk loosing there 4x4 or caterpillar tractor for a piece of worthless junk, but I have not given up.

[Gordons]

say can anyone make out the regiment name on the side ...MINSTER REGT ?

[sth65pac]

Hmm, Gordon,

I presume you're in Canada...perhaps you could try and talk to Coulson's?? http://www.coulsongroup.com/aviation_sikorski.html

They fly Sikorski S61's (Sea King) for logging & firefighting.. You might be able to get the carrier hauled out as a PR exercise. I would try that spin.

An S61 can lift 4500 pounds underslung. I think Coulson's S61 aircraft are of a higher rating..5000? if they are in the area,(on a mission or for the season) they might do it for a few hundred $$$. An S61 costs about $4500 an hour to fly so if they were quick (10 mins) you might only pay $450.... or a carton of ???

Otherwise, have you thought of a strip of the hull completely, and then use logs & skid it across to the shore or the lake, then when you're at max ice thickness skid it across on long lengths of timber. 30 or 40 foot. That would disperse the weight to around 4 pounds per foot?! So, with a cable, you would be able to get it to your side of the water.

Ian (in OZ)

[kevinT]

Hi Gordon,

But I cannot be sure of what is in the ()
It looks like ?ATOR. But that is a guess.
Do you know if there is a WD serial visible anywhere?

Cheers
Kevin

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

Originally Posted by kevinT

Hi Gordon,

But I cannot be sure of what is in the ()
It looks like ?ATOR. But that is a guess.
Do you know if there is a WD serial visible anywhere?

Cheers
Kevin

The WD number on these girls is stamped into the top edge of the armour plate immediately in front of the driver...

[rob love]

Originally Posted by fordchevcmp

say can anyone make out the regiment name on the side ...MINSTER REGT ?

The marking on the side is "The Westminster Regiment" from New Westminster British Columbia. The word in the brackets is likely "Motor".

http://www.army.gc.ca/royal_westies/history6.htm

In April of 1941 the 1st Bn, Westminster Regiment (MG) underwent an entire reorganization, re-rolled, and re-equipped with Bren-Gun Carriers, White Scout cars and motorcycles. They became a motor regiment a precursor to today's mechanized infantry units. In-conjunction with their new role was a subsequent name change from 1st Bn, The Westminster Regiment (MG) to 1st Bn, The Westminster Regiment (Motor).

[rob love]

If you strip the carrier down to it's center roadwheels only, and pull off everything that can be pulled off, it can be floated reasonably well. There was a method of using oil drums strapped to the sides. I believe each drum is good for something like 600 to 800 pounds. You can also wrap the hull in a tarp so it will float even a bit better.

A quad will pull a stripped carrier hull with just the center bogies on it.

I would love to go for a project like this. It's been a few years since I have helped dig carriers out of marsh banks, or from across 10 miles of water.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Gordon - at this stage, instead of questioning how to retrieve it, I would be questioning how and why it got there in the first place. Possibly an old local may know. But then you have probably been down this avenue.

Bob

[charlie fitton]

Originally Posted by rob love

I would love to go for a project like this. It's been a few years since I have helped dig carriers out of marsh banks, or from across 10 miles of water.

I'm with Rob on this - If it were possible , I'd help.

Best one I helped with (other than mine) was north of Toronto, Brass plate on the front mudguard, paper air filter, and an archeological dig in the botton gave up a top for the AA mount.

Pi##ed of the neighbour ladies dog though........

[Gordons]

ok a few numbers here
also see parts for the final drive of an LVT-1 in these parts

[Gordons]

few more pic looks like flame thrower on frt

[Gordons]

one more pic

[Gordons]

this is an old pic of LVT-1 a few years back from same company that abandoned this U/C

[Lynn Eades]

The carrier is mint!!!. She would be a great project...... Someone needs to save her.
(I dont think the two gear bits are anything to do with it.)

[Ledsel]

Is the LVT-1 still there? That would be a nice project

[Gordons]

HANDS OFF LVT-1 is out and in my yard

[Ledsel]

Ooops!

[ron]

Well it looks like a bit of a challenge just a thought they build ships out of concrete and they float, so why not remove the bogies and weld plates over the holes? weld a plate at the back where the diff enters the hull and either weld plates over the drain holes that are are under the petrol tanks and the drain hole in the left front of the carrier then attach a few drums to the sides and front and set sail, it would be no big deal to drag it into the water with sheave blocks with either hand winches or comalongs or even endless chain blocks also weld a plate over the gunners port, its too good to leave there, I just wish I was there with a couple of good men it would not take long with Colin Jones and Bob Mosely it would be in the shed by now,
Good luck please keep us informed,
Regards, Ron

[Mike Timoshyk]

Was that Marsden Matting I saw in one of the pictures....sure looks like...I would loveto get my hands on a couple of lengths of that stuff.

cheers

Mike Timoshyk in Windsor Ontario

[cletrac (RIP)]

The Alligator LVT-1 used a big Hercules 6 like the one in my Cletrac MG!. They were also used in a variety of trucks in the 1940s. That'll be quite the project.

[Snowy]

Wow that LVT-1 is an incredible find, carrier notwithstanding! It's my favourite LVT design. Interesting to see Gordon's photo of the final drive assembly with the 'silent chain' sprocket and the track sprocket. Compare that to the exploded view of it from the TM:



(I have most of the rest of the LVT-1 TM at http://202.63.50.228/gallery2/main.p...g2_itemId=2732 )

PS. I'm in need of a few measurements checked from a real LVT-1 for a 3-view diagram I've done, perhaps you can help me

Also, Ron's idea of floating the carrier out of there sounds good. I'd use plastic sheet, a few tubes of silicone sealant and a pressure can or two of expanding foam to get it watertight. And lash a few 44 gallon drums to the sides for good measure

Steve.

[Gordons]

Steve, if I can be of help let me know, I doubt this LVT will be restored, we have talked about it.

I tried to find a manual for these but never had any luck, so this is a great find .

Currently this LVT is on loan to the local minning museum, the final drive parts you see in the pic are spare parts or may have been removed and replaced with new parts at one time, the LVT-1 is complete less instrument panel and logo which went missing shortly after we put it in storeage.

Check out the welding on the drive !

Also there where two LVT-1's see the pic, the black and white pic shows a 3 step into cargo hold model where as the color pic shows the 2 step into cargo hold model , I have not been able to find any info on the design
changes ?

[Snowy]

Thanks Gordon, I'll get to sending you my preliminary 3-view drawing sometime soon. I'll annotate it with the measurements I want confirmed. The way this came about was, I have a 'gunnadoo' project for a 1/16 RC LVT-1 model one day. I searched the net high and low but couldn't find anyone who had done a LVT-1 scale drawing. I think David Harper (the author of some great LVT books, and an LVT expert) plans to do one sometime, but have no idea when.

On eBay someone regularly auctions copies of 1940s magazine plans for building wooden models, and had an LVT-1 plan in 1/12 scale. Using those I synthesised the CAD drawing that I need checked. By the way the plan instructions mention the track grousers were angled specifically to divert water away from the sides of the vehicle and thus keep the crew and troops drier.

As for the 3-step vs 2-step side, I had a look through my copy of Squadron's 'Amtracs in Action' book. It doesn't mention anything about the dates for the step change. I'm left even more confused because it shows diagrams and photos of the original Roebling 'Alligator 3' with a 3-step pontoon, as well as (all?/some?) of the first batch of 100 built plus second batch of 200 with same. But then the photos show production LVT-1's (1225 made) with a 2-step pontoon. However, it then has a photo of a late-production LVT-1 with a 3-step side! Hmmm beats me.

The early production LVT-1's had widely-spaced front windows but late production ones were close together. Also you'll notice in the TM on page 185 only the very early models had hydraulic tensioners for the track bullnose, this was quickly dropped in favour of the screw-adjustment system - must have been more trouble than it was worth.

That gearbox welding repair looks impressively desperate. Modern engine and heavy equipment rebuild shops could probably tackle that with newer techniques ...if sufficient money was thrown at them.

Steve.

[Gordons]

Steve here are a few pic of the track showing off set mounting, there are four holes in the grousers, but only two are used for mounting this gives the off set. measurements are 11 inch length x 4 inch wide ( pad ) x 3.5 height and 1/4 inch material.

[Gordons]

Originally Posted by Mike Timoshyk

Was that Marsden Matting I saw in one of the pictures....sure looks like...I would loveto get my hands on a couple of lengths of that stuff.

Mike you are correct this is Marsden matting, approx 20 pieces some in very good condition

[king of obsolete]

in your pictures there is a square timber which is actually a winter freighting sleigh bunk. the odds are this machine was pulling a sleigh and when they ran in to bad ice they drove it to shore. 50 years later it is still there because over the years parts were borrowed to keep other machine running.
hope you can drag it home.

thansk
KoO
Published Author

[king of obsolete]

also those welds on the gear box are very impressive for the time frame of using a buzz box on AC current. the water has gotten in and expaned causing the spliting (ok when it freezes). the box can be save, i have rewelded a few.

thansk
KoO
Published Author