18" tyres

[gordon]

[moderator's note: this subject was split from the WW2 Compressor thread as it apparently is interesting enough to justify it's own thread.]


I've always had a problem with 18" wheels, or rather the tyres on them. The only vehicles that used 18" tyres in quantity were the DUKW and the Gama Goat - fortunately I was able to get later goat tyres to put on my DUKW.

A lot of trailers and non-standardised trucks used 18" wheels and tyres. I have four 8.25 x 18" tyres on my Ford SnoGo which were apparently an optional size for the Ford that year, but I've had no luck finding replacements for the perished originals.

Are new 18" tyres available in Australia, and if so can you get 8.25" width? I'm reluctant to spend a pile of money buying four for the truck while i'm actively trying to sell it but I'd like to know if they are available at least.

Any Autralian local pattern trucks use 18" wheels too ?

Gordon

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by Mike Kelly in WW2 Compressor
we have same problems here with 18 " tyres . They were very common at one point , as many of the 1940 - 41 MCP Fords and Chevs used by the army here used 18" split wheels . The 30 cwt class used 9.00 - 18's , the 3 ton class used 10.50-18's . These sizes are long out of production . Dukw owners here use the gamma goat tyres I think , but supply is very unreliable . A 1940 3 ton Ford owner near me uses old DUKW tyres on his truck , very cracked . The owner is a bit cracked too .

I have been told of a current Japanese brand of 7.50 - 18" tyres with a military tread . What tyres are on that NZ No.3 gun tractor Tony Smith posted ? they look like new tyres and they could be the Jap ones .

The tyres are marked 8.25-18 and are marked "Made in New Zealand. They are available in 7.50-16, 7.50-18, 8.25-18, 7.50-20 and 9.00-20. While it is good to see a supplier of odd sizes, I didn't take the suppliers details as it is 10.50-18 tyres that are most sought after here in Aust. I'll try to find out more. They are reputed to be quite sturdy tyres, but howl like losing kiwi rugby players on the road


Picture linked from Gun tractor database

[gordon]

I'd like any details you can get on them, particularly the 8.25 x 18s, such as ply rating, manufacturer, etc.

I don't suppose they will have an outlet here, but if it doesn't help me directly whoever I sell this thing to will definitely want to know.

I wonder hom many MH-Fords sat on 8.25 x 18s? I know one in the UK was swapped onto 20" rims, probably because of tyre (lack of...) availability.

Gordon

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
The tyres are marked 8.25-18 and are marked "Made in New Zealand. They are available in 7.50-16, 7.50-18, 8.25-18, 7.50-20 and 9.00-20. While it is good to see a supplier of odd sizes, I didn't take the suppliers details as it is 10.50-18 tyres that are most sought after here in Aust. I'll try to find out more. They are reputed to be quite sturdy tyres, but howl like losing kiwi rugby players on the road

Tony,
I to, am also interested in these tyres, in particular, the 7.50-18. The Daimler Dingo scout car used 7.00-18 and it was the only vehicle that used these Dunlop Trackgrips, last batch made in mid '50's. I have found a highway treaded truck tyre of 7.00-18 which will allow extended road work as most original tyres are now too precious to wear them out. If I could then get overall diameters and width, it may be a compromise, dependant on sufficient clearance of suspension and mudguard. To make a batch of new tyres will be prohibited by price I am sure.

And lastly, no worries if they are noisy, "it will howl like a Dingo"

Richard

[Tony Smith]

I've contacted the owner of the M-H Tractor about his tyres. The sad news is that these tyres wre bought 10-15 years ago and are retreads! The truck obviously clocks up low miles over a ten year period! He does not believe that any 18" tyres are still available new in NZ, with only the occaisional Gama Goat 11.00-18 turning up. There are Japanese commercial truck tyres, too, from time to time but these have a very unsiutable tread.

[Richard Farrant]

Tony,
Thanks for coming back on the 18" tyres. I have now come across some 7.50-18 military tread tyres in Europe and am waiting for more info on circumference to see if suitable.

Richard

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Richard Farrant
I have now come across some 7.50-18 military tread tyres in Europe and am waiting for more info on circumference to see if suitable.

Richard,

Could this be the same as that Argentinean 7.50-18 NATO tread -see "Tyre companies"?

Hanno

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Could this be the same as that Argentinean 7.50-18 NATO tread -see "Tyre companies"?

Hanno,
See my reply on the "tyre companies" thread, thanks.

Richard

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Here's an interesting set of 18" tyres: size 9.00-18 with tractor-type treads. Picture courtesy of Dan Eakins, owner of a Canadian Truck, 3-ton, 6x6, Crash Tender (Ford/Marmon-Herrington MM5-6), who noted "The tires are interesting as they were made in Canada by Firestone and have an RAF marking on them...."

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
as it is 10.50-18 tyres that are most sought after here in Aust.

Tony, how about some 10.00x18 tyres? I think these were originally made for Unimog trucks.
See Vrakking banden > 4x4 off-the-road for more details.

H.

[Neil Ashley]

Richard

The only tyres I have ever seen on Dingo's in this country have been the solid rubber type.

I have observed two tread patterns, the standard Dunlop Track Grip, and a very angular straight bar pattern. ECM used to have large quantities on rims from vehicles they had broken.

I dont know if you can confirm or not if these are cast directly on to the rim? If so, owners of Carriers can, I understand get their wheels re-rubbered. Can the same companies cast new wheels on to Dingo rims?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Neil Ashley
Richard

The only tyres I have ever seen on Dingo's in this country have been the solid rubber type.

I have observed two tread patterns, the standard Dunlop Track Grip, and a very angular straight bar pattern. ECM used to have large quantities on rims from vehicles they had broken.

I dont know if you can confirm or not if these are cast directly on to the rim? If so, owners of Carriers can, I understand get their wheels re-rubbered. Can the same companies cast new wheels on to Dingo rims?

Hi Neil,

Ah ha.....those Dingo tyres are not actually solid, I have even had someone tell me that they have a spring inside, still not true! What they actually are like, are very heavy walled tyres with a thick bead spacer as used in normal tubed runflat tyres. You end up with a cavity of about 3 inches diameter. Having removed them I am talking from experience. The runflats used on them during the war, were tubed type. The "solid" one is / was known by Dunlop as RFE1.

The tyres you mention with the angular straight bar tread are remoulds done for the army, I recently had a Dingo in for rebuild with these on and the remould date was 1958. There are other makes and tread patterns to be found on Dingos, like India Super Traction with a directional tread, similar to a tractor.

So they are not moulded on to the wheel unfortunatly, if this were so the problem would be a little easier to solve, but a cavity is neccessary to cuhion the ride and I think there is a speed limit for solid tyres as well. Nothing is easy

Richard

[Corey Myronuk]

i have access to as many goat tires as you could ever want.let me know if you need em.
good luck

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I thought it might be found interested to know the War Department tyre sizes that they specified immediately pre-war, which dictated Canadian sizes of course:

9.00 x 13-inch tyre: 8-cwt GS Trucks
9.00 x 16-inch tyre: 15-cwt GS Trucks; 6-wheel Field Artillery Tractors; Field Gun Carriages; Field Artillery Trailers.
10.50 x 16-inch tyre: 30-cwt 4-wheeled lorry.
10.50 x 16-inch sand tyre: 15-cwt and 30-cwt vehicles for use in Egypt and other sand localities.
7.50 x 20-inch tyre: 30-cwt GS 6-wheeled lorry for load carrying purposes.
9.00 x 22-inch tyre: 3-ton lorry.
13.50 x 20-inch tyre: Medium Artillery Tractor; medium Gun Carriages; heavy trailers of various types.

The 18-inch tyre size [9.00 x 18] was suggested by Ford of Canada but it was non-WD standard. The WD were concerned that tyre sizes larger than 16" might cause the tyre to creep on its rim.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
7.50 x 20-inch tyre: 30-cwt GS 6-wheeled lorry for load carrying purposes.
9.00 x 22-inch tyre: 3-ton lorry.
13.50 x 20-inch tyre: Medium Artillery Tractor; medium Gun Carriages; heavy trailers of various types.

So at what point in time did the War Department specify 10.50-20 tyre sizes, the wartime standard for 60-cwt/3-ton trucks?

H.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

My data shows that 10.50 x 20 Dunlop Trakgrip and Firestone Ground Grip tyres were trialled on 3-ton 4 x 4 WD trucks in 1938 but in 1937 10.50 and 12.75 x 20 Dunlop 90 tyres were fitted to Gilford WD 4-wheelers. So, either 1937 or (definitively) in 1938 is the answer!

The Gilford G.4/3 was trialled in 1936 as an expermental design but lacked performance because of tyre design, In 1937 the gas-producer 4-cylinder version was fitted with 10.50 x 20 tyres and gave satisfactory performance. That is the earliest evidence I have come across so far about these tyres.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

There is no information in the War Department Specifications for 1939 as updated about the 3-ton 4-wheeler lorries and so no reference to 10.50 x 20 tyres. The 3-tonner 6-wheelers were to use 9 x 20 tyres on 6-inch rims though.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

There is a mobile jetty used by Blue Boats at Southsea, about 100 yards from the RN Memorial at Southsea Common, Portsmouth, Hampshire. The jetty runs down the steep shingle beach into the water when required. The landside pair of the four wheels are military style with quite good condition 11.00 x 20 Dunlop Trak Grip RFs! The others are worn India 20-inchers.
Was the 11.00 x 20 a later version of rhe 10.50 x 20?

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
There is a mobile jetty used by Blue Boats at Southsea, about 100 yards from the RN Memorial at Southsea Common, Portsmouth, Hampshire. The jetty runs down the steep shingle beach into the water when required. The landside pair of the four wheels are military style with quite good condition 11.00 x 20 Dunlop Trak Grip RFs! The others are worn India 20-inchers.
Was the 11.00 x 20 a later version of rhe 10.50 x 20?

David,

Running a Bedford QL, I can answer that. The size 10.50-20 was used on 4x4 3ton trucks during the war period and runflat variants on armoured cars such as Humber and Daimler. Post war, I would guess in early 50's the 10.50 became obsolete and replaced by 11.00-20. I have an army pamphlet on servicing the QL, c.1958, stating this point.
The RF tyres you spotted were probably from a Saracen APC.

Richard

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
Was the 11.00 x 20 a later version of rhe 10.50 x 20?

Indeed. I have even seen a tyre sidewall marked "11.00-20 replaces 10.50-20". I have since learned this was a "new alternative size marking" for the 10.50-20 tyres listed in the wartime Data Book of Wheeled Vehicles, so it must have been a wartime change.

Interestingly, while this tyre originally had Dunlop TrakGrip tread, it was recapped at least twice, the last time with NDCC bar tread.

Hanno

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Hanno Spoelstra
Indeed. I have even seen a tyre sidewall marked "11.00-20 replaces 10.50-20". I have since learned this was a "new alternative size marking" for the 10.50-20 tyres listed in the wartime Data Book of Wheeled Vehicles, so it must have been a wartime change.

Hanno,

Looking in the War Office Vocab for Tyres, dated 1951, they show tyre part no. LV6-MT14 / 7297 ( with CC tread ) as being supplied as;
a/ 10.50-20
b/ 11.00-20
c/ 10-50 / 11.00-20

Incidentally, regarding runflats, only 10.50-20 are listed..........no 11.00 at that time.

Richard

[Tony Smith]

Originally posted by David_Hayward
Was the 11.00 x 20 a later version of rhe 10.50 x 20?

The 3.7in AA gun was fitted with 11.00-20 tyres (we have 1943 marked ones on the AA emplacement guns), which I would presume was in common with the Matador that hauled it.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by Tony Smith
The 3.7in AA gun was fitted with 11.00-20 tyres (we have 1943 marked ones on the AA emplacement guns), which I would presume was in common with the Matador that hauled it.

Tony,

The Matador is shown in the War Office vehicle data book as having 13.50-20 tyres, replaced by 14.00-20.

Looking at this book, 5th Edition 1945, it shows 10.50-20 tyres and also a new alternative marking 11.00-20 replacing 10.50-20. (same as the Matador tyres above). This now leads me to believe that there is no physical difference and that they can be mixed, hence in my previous post, the army part number is the same for both sizes of tyre.
This has now surprised me, because my Bedford was originally on 10-50 and now 11.00 and the speedo, which is a NOS, is out and I always assumed this to be due to the upping of tyre size, now I think the drive gear may be wrong, will have to check that out!

Richard

[jim sewell]

Originally Posted by DUUANE

i have access to as many goat tires as you could ever want.let me know if you need em.

Hi Duuane
Do you still have access to the 11.00x18 Gamma Goat tyres , have a friend that is in need of six tyres in Aust.
Thanks
Regards
Jim S.

[JackM]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

The Matador is shown in the War Office vehicle data book as having 13.50-20 tyres, replaced by 14.00-20.

Richard,

This Matador/Dorchester is in the Merredin Museum (in the wheatbelt of West Australia) and is shod with 1400 x 20 - same tyres used on the Saracen.

From some accounts, it is one of seven used by the AIF in WW2.


Jack

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Someone find a solution for the Ferret tyre problem?

Pic source: HMVF

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

Someone find a solution for the Ferret tyre problem?

Hanno,

Dingo actually This owner has found some 7.50-18 tyres, normal size is 7.00-18.

I have fitted some 7.00-18 truck tyres to another Dingo, with good results, apart from visual appearance of course. Tried to get it stuck in Beltring mud last year and it kept going

[gjamo]

Searching the web the other day I ran into this site.
Has anyone dealt with them.
Some interesting sizes in their range.
Graeme
http://www.bkt-tires.com/indus&cons_c9_mp585.htm

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

Hanno, Dingo actually

Of course
Sorry, it was late and I was tired.

H.

[oily]

14.00 - 20 tyres were not used on Saracens, only 11.00 - 20, and 12.00 - 20...
apart from a very small number 1?, seen fitted with what look like very smooth sand tyres, almost like aircraft tyres