Australian Lepoard Tanks

[phoenix]

We've most all heard about hte leopards being offered without engine or gearbox to museums and the like, but today was the first I had heard of one being bought y a private person in australia.

Apparently in good running condition in Brisbane. Anybody else heard anything?

[Col Tigwell]

The ones with no engines and transmissions are going to museums.

I believe the going price for a runner is $6000.

Regards

Col

[phoenix]

You gotta be joking, $6k !!!!

[cletrac (RIP)]

Some Canadian ones that just got out of the shop sold for $10k a few years ago, but they were minus the turret.

[Ryan]

Originally posted by phoenix
You gotta be joking, $6k !!!!

Uh-huh, what he said.

Jaw just hit the floor. That can't be right Col, surely. Surely you can't be serious! ( Yes I love Flying High )
Six grand, where and when do I sign?!

Phoenix.........aistralia?

[Wayne Henderson]

So far as the "gifting process" to museums, the word/email is all is on hold till the new Government make the call. Better be rude and ask again.
Only $6000 and another $25,000 to get it to W.A. I wonder if we could drive it home and and spend the money on fuel and Mars bars. What's the fuel consumption on a Leopard.

[aj.lec]

I think it would be cheaper to pay the $25000
72kmh and 500km maximum range
980 litre fuel capacity

[Col Tigwell]

Well guys I only heard that at the Museum yesterday, when a major who had only just got out, came by to suggest we ask for one.

He indicated that all engineless ones were to be gifted to museums, and the goers would be sold. He indicated the price I mentioned, but did state that transport would cost a lot more.

The reason that some have no engines, is they have been pulling the good ones for back up. Perhaps that means not all will go for disposal.

Now where is my favourite WO, Mr Pullen should be able to set us right.

Just think you could get one for your lady Phoenix, just tell it a moke all grown up, and she will get a lot of respect when going shopping.

Regards

Col

[Ian Pullen]

Gentlemen, How can I put this without sounding like an official reply coming from inside the circle?

Ummm, basically it's just not happening I'm afraid.

As for the $6k asking price, if by any chance that they might come up, I would probably add a zero before the decimal point....

If that were to happen, it would still be VERY cheap. However, having seen the (stored) fleet in it's entirety only last week, many are marked as not running.

These poor critters have been sitting out in the open now since they were removed from service and are looking a bit worse for wear at the moment.

Add to that the cost of new track (as many desperately need it) plus the other sundry maint costs just to get it (and keep it) running would be astronomical.

Whoever started the Furphy about $6k and already for sale obviously is using the right bait as many are biting. My phone has started ringing already let alone my e-mails.

How about we let the new Minister for Defence actually start work and get around to signing off on the disposal plan (which at this stage isn't even finalised) before we start having a stirring and thickening in our pants...

[Ian Pullen]

Gentlemen, I made a few calls today at work to check any validity to the current furphy about the Leopard fleet and I can confirm that the disposal plan has still yet to be signed off.

Therefore to the best of my knowledge, the entire fleet is still sitting in storage excepting what is still in Pucka and Darwin.

Any thickening and stirring within the trouser department can officially be placed on hold........

[Keith Webb]

Any thickening and stirring within the trouser department can officially be placed on hold........

LMAO!

Standing by for admonishment from Ma

[Jared Archibald]

G’day everyone,

I have been having a heck of a time lately logging onto MLU. I thought it might have been due to the cyclone but the problem seems to be persisting.

Anyway, I have some knowledge on the subject of the retired Leopards and will share it with you now.
I applied for one of the “gate guardian” engineless tanks for a group that I belong to here in Darwin. It basically came down to the fact that ‘if you don’t ask-you don’t get’. I applied within the timeframe and outlined in detail why we would make worthy recipients of a Leopard. There was very little information forthcoming on what the Defence Dept was looking for so we did our best. We heard nothing whatsoever - not even a courtesy note to say that the application had been received and was under consideration.
I then tried a different approach. I applied for one of the surplus WW11 era Naval Bofors that have been removed from the decommissioned and now scrapped Fremantle Class patrol boats. I applied directly to the Commander of the Patrol Boat Group here in Darwin. The response was much better. I received a reply stating that he felt that the request was appropriate and that he had passed it onto the ADF Disposals and Marketing Agency. Some weeks later (November 2007) I received a call from this agency and was quizzed about various aspects of my request:- who we were, where would the item be held, and so on. I was informed that all the Bofors had been spoken for (there is apparently great competition within the three arms of the ADF for gate guardians of all descriptions). I have since seen one of the Bofors installed in the grounds of the Naval Cadet building here in Darwin.
So, while I had this bloke on the phone I asked him about the situation with the Leopard tanks. He informed me that the decisions on who would get the thirty on offer had already been made, and this could be found on the website for the Minister of Defence. He was correct. It was laid out very clearly in a table where they were all going, and what criteria was used to come to these decisions. It was interesting that almost every single recipient was an RSL. There were no museums as such getting a Leopard, unless they were attached to an RSL. To see this document, go to http://www.liberal.org.au/team/brend...pardTanks.pdf.
Having read this document again, and Ian Pullen’s response, it may mean that although the decisions were made, due to the change in government these allocations may not be honoured. We will have to see. They will have to be careful though as the minister personally announced that the Palmerston RSL (15 minutes from me and 5 minutes from 1st Armoured Regiment) was the only place in the Northern Territory receiving a Leopard. There will be lots of unhappy people if one doesn’t appear here sometime in the future.

I asked him about the chance of getting a running Leopard. He stated emphatically that there would be no chance of this. In this age high security and litigiousness, there is no way that the ADF would allow running armoured vehicles to be sold off to the general public - especially something as “war-like” as a Leopard MBT. The ADF would not risk the public relations nightmare of some idiot running amok in an armoured vehicle that was originally owned by them. (A case in point was the lunatic last year that smashed the mobile phone towers in a privately owned APC).
The only Leopards that I could envisage being released for sale in running condition would be the bridge layers, and maybe the ARVs. These do not have the ‘menace’ or armament of a main battle tank.

However, I would love one, and I live in hope……

Jared

[Ryan]

This is from the Australian newspaper, seems the whole fleet is now up for sale to an overseas country.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au...rom=public_rss

What a shame, if it goes ahead.

[Ian Pullen]

Guys, it has been quite a few months since I have had the chance to grace these hallowed halls and I have been asked more than just a few questions as to the Leopard fleet and when the cheque books can come out.
The simple answer is put them back, the only movement that has happened with ANY of the Leopards, is to move the ones that were in a wharehouse out into the open with all the others.
There are discussions as to selling them off to a foreign country, (no secret as you have all read the links in the paper). The alternative if you don't like that is to do something that we would all feel would be a lot worse.
Scrap metal values are rather good at the moment.
As for the (gift) tanks, I haven't actually seen any yet, have you???
We would all be living in fairy land if we actually believed in today's climate that they would seel them to the public. I though, like the rest of you can dream.

[BSHEVLIN]

a squadron worth of smokers have been sent to the raaf base at Katherine for hard targets for the aircraft bombing range. (! confirmed arrival !)

[BSHEVLIN]

ps i heard a rumor that some one on the qld / nsw border has negotiated the sale of a runner, a greyman amour collector who wants to remain anomys

[Ian Pullen]

I have made a few discreet enquiries and the rumour about a collector buying a Leo is just that.
The reply I got was if they sold one it would set a precedence and as they do not want to release them at public auction, it would be a Furphy that a collector would have one.
Still even if there is a .01% chance, the line starts here gentlemen.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Any whispers as to what country might be interested in the Leopards?

[Ian Pullen]

Yep.......

[phoenix]

LOL, gotta love that, you have to ask specific questions if you ever want the correct answer

[Ian Pullen]

Basically guys, I cannot say at the moment.

[Ryan]

Maybe somebody needs to step in and really talk these tanks down before this foreign country hands over its money.
Something along the lines of:
" You'd be better off buying T-55's, these Leopards are buggered. "
" Personally I think your being ripped off, I wouldn't pay any more than scrap. A .22 could penetrate these frontally!"

That way the deal can be off and collectors can have their fun.

Come on Rudd, you gave the pensioners something, how about us!

[Tony Smith]

I can offer you a good price on a shipload of 33 T72's, delivery to be organised ex Somalia.

[Ian Pullen]

Guys,
If the govt were to actually allow these things to be sold off via public auction, I very much doubt that many would remain in Australia. There would be cashed up buyers (exchange rate is looking good for them) from overseas waiting in a line also.
To be brutally honest there would not be too many collectors here who could afford one, transport it, run it AND maintain it. We have to admit that our hobby is small here compared to the USA, UK & Europe. I would expect about 80% would end up there. Considering there would be less than 100 tanks that would be sold off, if they were to go. That's not many left....
4 MPG @ $1.70 plus per litre, plus costs of transport to & from. Ouch.....
Parts are non existant and to get it to a meeting and back would cost literally thousands. The logistics would be a nightmare also. Escort vehicles, road closures, bridges etc, it would not be easy.
Is that talking them down enough???????????
If they were to go up for auction, my wife would leave me, but then I suppose I could always sleep in it......
I would however like to know more on the T72's though.

[Dinty]

G'day All, read all about it here http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...cle4831652.ece cheers Dennis

[Wayne Henderson]

Gee Ian, lighten up! Everyone knows that the minute a collector buys a tank some nutter with a gut full of whisky and a manic dislike of government property nicks it anyway. Owning a tank is just the same as owning a massive stinkboat or having a mistress, something that costs bucketloads of money and is used rarely, but oh the ride....
When I win lotto I'm gunna buy a tank, I've already got the whisky...

[Ian Pullen]

Yeah, sorry gentlemen. I suppose that was just venting.

A very good friend of both my wife & I has just passed. Given only two years to live five years ago she fought on. She said she wanted to hang on just to up the betting odds. Aparently no one apart from her, had anything more than three years on the sweep. (Hey, it was her idea, cleaned up too).........

There have been other things this week also including having to put my dog down. Seems I'll no longer have any one to blame my farts on after 18 years of having Boxers.

So gentlemen, I was just needing to vent. It's just been a week I'd rather forget.....

[Snowy]

Just saw this SMH article about the Leopard-in-your-cornflakes-box giveaways. There would be a lot of disappointed people over this:
http://news.smh.com.au/national/vete...1028-5aft.html

[Ian Pullen]

Gentlemen

I am trying to find a copy of the original proposal for the "gifted" tanks. This way I will be able to answer many questions over this fiasco. I had a copy somewhere & I will find it eventually

I seem to recall that it stated they were to be gutted completely of any and all internal fittings. So basically an empty hull.

Devoid of power packs, radiators, hydraulics etc.

All sights, vision blocks etc removed and welded over.

All external binning and ALL crew access (hatches) welded shut.

Am unsure but I think the turret was to be welded in position as was elevation of the barrel.

The complete external appearance of the vehicle was to be refurbished to new condition including tracks.

Barrels were to be cut at the chamber and breeches stripped of most of the components and then welded in position plus a cut in the breech ring.

I believe that there was also a covenant in the contract that the vehicle was never to be sold off and would have to be returned to the government when it was no longer required.

Upkeep was to be at the expense of the proprieter (not the government).

I am fairly sure that there was mention in the original draft of the expression of interest that transport costs were not to be at government expense.

As I cannot find a copy of the original expression of interest (yet) I will not put my hand on my heart and state that these terms are definite. I recall seeing these points written somewhere though.

I think I mentioned almost a month ago about having seen none of these so called gifts actually out there.

I have heard rumour of an overseas group of cashed up gentlemen who are waiting in the background wanting to buy the entire fleet if they were somehow to go to public sale.

[Ian Pullen]

Seems that the gutted hulls that are available for "Clubs and organisations" etc are also to have their tracks welded once in position and then the hull filled with concrete so as they are definately unable to be resurrected as anything resembling a runner.

Tis such a pity.........

I suppose that they would make an intersting letterbox in the front yard though.