Carrier "RestoMod" in Oklahoma

[kevin powles]

On E-Bay at the moment. No connection to the seller. Looks like a good starting point. Item number: 160311073832

Winning bid: US $5,800.00
Ended: Jan-26-09 18:49:21 PST
Sells to: United States
Item location: Stillman Valley, IL, United States
History: 5 bids
Winning bidder: r***r( 27)
Starting time: Jan-19-09 18:49:21 PST
Starting bid: US $5,000.00
Seller: transitbusmike( 7 )
Feedback: 100 % Positive
Member: since Nov-24-03 in United States

Description (revised)
This is a WWII tracked "Bren Gun" carrier with its original Ford flathead V8 engine. The vehicle runs well and it was out climbing drifts from a snow fall last week.

The top armor was removed at some point, but the majority of mounting angle is still intact if you wish to add some back on. The vehicle has fresh paint and reupholstered seats. The headlights are in working condition as well as a dash light and radio.

There is a number stamped in the hull behind the driver’s seat: CB453. I am not sure if this a production number; if so, it is a very early one.

This is a great way to get a piece of WWII armor. It can be stored in an average size garage and towed with a regular truck. The dimensions for a Bren Gun Carrier (also known as a Universal Carrier or Scout Carrier) are 144” long, 81” wide, and 62.5” tall with a gross weight of 8,515 lbs. Each of the tracks has 166 links in it.

This is a used vehicle and is being sold as is. Must be picked up locally within 3 weeks of auction ending. A deposit of $500 due within 48 hours of auction ending. Full payment to be made by cash or cashiers check/money order within 14 days of auction ending. Vehicle is located in Stillman Valley, IL. Shipping quote available upon request.

Please note: I am not set up to perform export shipping from the U.S. We could transport the Carrier to the vicinity of the Baltimore, MD container port for about $1600-1800. But it would be up to you to have someone in the U.S. to take possession of it and take it through customs and ship it overseas.

Let me know if you have any questions. Happy bidding!

[Bruce Parker (RIP)]

1. If those pictures of that carrier going through the snow doesn't get them, nothing will. Say, I've got a few snow banks around here...and a carrier....

2. If it sells for less than those two hulks a few weeks ago, I'll...

[RichardT10829]

very nice, i love the stereo !!! classic that will go for stupid money because

a) its working and looks pretty

b) it on ebay and folk will go crackers like they usually do

starting bid $5000 USD (£3577) plus shipping minimum £1500

Hmmmm the mind begins to turn over i will watch this with eager eyes.

Kevin please can you PM me some details of the shipping firm used for your carrier buddy.
(sorry to thread jack)

[kevin powles]

Hi, Its a Mk1 also richard, what you have been looking for. It's also one of the very few carriers driven by the invisible man.

[RichardT10829]

Indeed i think its an early one too as the track tensioners are the older type (the type adjusted with the shephards crook) that can be seen on the front (unless i have misread the good book by mr Watson)

can anyone remember what those two wrecks went for, i lost interest when it went silly circa $4500.

Kevin i will watch it and see how daft it goes, but who knows it could end up in Newcastle upon Tyne...the centre bulkhead would make adding the outer armour back on that bit more easier

[RichardT10829]

guy got back to me wants circa 1600 - 1800 just to drop it off at the shipping yard (Baltimore), and he wont see it into the container so another person would need to be present to organise that side of things.... I have asked about links and sprockets, he did not give me any pics of the sprockets saying (no teeth missing) he says there are 166 links in each side track wise


just so you know guys. think by the time it has gone nuts it will not be viable for my budget

good luck to who ever gets it.

cheers

Richard

[rossbart]

Well, I am the guy that bought this carrier. I am excited to go pick it up and hope to this weekend. However, I am a complete newcomer to the universal carrier. This one appears to be in good mechanical condition and the tracks in good shape but, to be honest, I have not yet seen it in person. However, as the carrier family seems to be a fairly close one, I am not going to be surprised if you guys can't tell me quite a bit about this particular one and I am hopeful that you will.

Can anybody give me any insight or knowledge as to the history, ownership, restoration thus far, condition, etc. of this little carrier. For that matter - even what it is exactly. I think it is a Mk I? Universal or Bren?

I have ordered some reference and service books (just ordered Nigel's Universal Carrier Books) and am sure that these will help but for now I'm just trying to figure out what I have.

Any help to the new guy will be greatly appreciated.

Thanks,
Ross

[rob love]

It is a mk1, as is evidenced by the two rectengular holes in the hull over the rear diff. The track, with 166 links (as described by the seller) would be almost new....new would have 168 links which would have been reduced to 167 links within 50 miles as the pebbling from the casting wore off.

This isn't a bad carrier for restoration, since the division plate remains uncut, and a bonus is that the angle iron for the side armour remains in place.

The front plate will have to be replaced (where the control panel is) but the good news is that it is a bolt on piece. They are around.

The thing you will need to find is the front armour. It is reasonably complicated. The sides and rear are harder to find but can be replicated fairly easily out of 1/4" (or more ideally 5/16th") plate.

There are a few guys on this forum who started with less than what you have now. Take a look at some of the threads like Jordan's, where he goes from start to finish on restoring basically a stripped out hull.

Good luck and welcome to the fraternity.

[rossbart]

Well, it has been a month or so since I joined the carrier fraternity and have had tons of fun so far working on this little guy. As requested by several on here, I am trying to take some photos along the way to document the restoration. First, here are three photos that show what I started with:

Was about a 32 hour roundtrip to retrieve the carrier from Northwest of Chicago, IL to its new home in Southern Oklahoma. May be the last snow it ever sees...

[rossbart]

The carrier had several mechanical issues but they were all hashed out fairly easily. One water pump was gone, ran like crap (partly due to no ballast resistor to the coil and it overheating @ 12volts in seconds), rebuilt fuel pump and carburetor, etc.. But, it runs very strong now.

The first metalwork was to strip the junk off the rear panel (old fuel tank, etc.). The flat panel behind the rear armor was significantly damaged as was the angle iron at the rear. We sheared and broke a piece of 14 guage mild steel and 1 1/2" angle iron to replace it. Here are some photos of that process:

[rossbart]

As you can see, we already have added the rear armor. It is all fully bolted up now and should not have to come back off any more. We used carriage bolts instead of rivets (as it seems most people do). We have the side armor cut in rough shape though we still have to cut the 5" by 20" section out where it drops down at the bulkhead. We have mocked the side armor up and drilled all of the holes for the basic mounting. Here are a few photos of that:

[rossbart]

Next came the toolplate. Just cut it out of 3/16" inch mild steel and drilled it accordingly. Pretty straightforward. Here are a few pictures of that. I do think it looks pretty clean and sharp.

[rossbart]

As the name of the thread implies, this will be a carrier restoration that is a little different than most. I know that some of you will cringe (and that's fine) but please be tolerant and understand that nothing done on this carrier will be permanent or unable to be UNBOLTED and changed should some future owner (or me for that matter) decide to restore as original.

Basically, I plan on making the restoration on everything behind the bulkhead pretty much as original. I think my greatest challenge to that end may be the engine cover as I don't have any dimensions or a carrier to measure from. I have made several appeals on here for help and hopefully someone will be willing to take the time to go do some measurements for me of the side air inlet pieces and the other engine cover items. That would help alot.

However, in front of the bulkhead (since I have absolutely nothing to start with and I really hope not to need actual armored protection) I am planning to fabricate something a bit more sloped and modern looking for the front armor. In addition to just a modern appearance, I am wanting to end up with something with better visibility. I live on about a 4,000 acre farm with lotsa creek bottoms and timber and my family and I enjoy just driving around and watching wildlife, etc. and just want it to be a little more useful to that end.

SO, here are three photos of the cardboard mockup that I am leaning toward right now. The hole in the front is just a hole in the box that I used that my daughter cut (yes, I stole her play box) so disregard that part. This will be formed out of 3/16" plate as well but, again, I will not cut anything on this carrier and whatever I do will be easily changed if someone should ever want to.

I cautiously ask for your feedback. What do you think?

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Ross.
You are doing the right thing...rebuilding for your own enjoyment..
You are not trying to misrepresent your intentions and saving a historic vehicle to boot..
The only thing I question is why you would only cut a tiny little hole to see through in your "Front armour"??
Why not put a couple of decent sized flat windows in the beasty and gasketed Lexan panels would work wonders..see all the wild life on the farm and look good to boot..
And one on each side of the drivers /gunners seat would let you see all over the place..
Looks great..carry on..

[rossbart]

Alex,

Haha.. Thanks for the comments. The little cutout in the front is just a hole that was in the box that I used for the mockup. I should have taped something across it. As mentioned in the text above those pictures, I stole that box from my daughter and that was just a hole she had cut for something.

Actually, the vantage point from my view when sitting in the seats is very good. I can see the ground probably within 10' of the carrier without effort and the field of fiew on the side is almost 180 degrees. I am pondering some plexiglass visors that fold under in that front drop down but will probably just wait until I get it built and see how it works.

The metal is supposed to be in today so I should have some new pics to post within the next few days. We'll see...

Ross

[RichardT10829]

each to they're own as they say... at least it can be reversed as you say speak with Martyn on here if you look at his build thread you will see what he has achieved, plus he has all the patterns.


Richie

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by rossbart

I am wanting to end up with something with better visibility.

Visibility in a carrier is very good as one can actually drive it looking over the top of the front armour with the seat in the up position. Actually, one really needs to be quite small to be able to look through the front slits in the original armour.

Restoring back to original configuration will increase its resale value, if you ever plan to sell it on. Other than that I´d say: hey, it´s your carrier.

- Hanno

[rossbart]

Just a quick update. Finally got metal cut and sitting in place for one side of the front armor from the cardboard mockup. Hopefully I'll get it welded and bolted up this evening and match it on the other side.

Here are some pics. Let me know what you think.

Ross

[BCBlitz]

Hey Ross

Carrier looks great, steel will deflect bullets much better than cardboard, glad you changed that

Seriously keep us informed with your progress always fun to see how others ideas all come together, save the templates someone else might need a pattern down the road for there carrier

[Rob Beale]

We have a farmers cut down carrier here. They cut the front plate, then found that water came in if they crossed creeks.

A suggestion would be to add an angle iron deflector or two on the front plate to stop water washing right up and over the front plate!
Believe me as you get used to driving it, you won't do things at slow speed!

The original carriers had a pair as bullet deflectors, so they won't look out of place.

Rob

[charlie fitton]

maybe add the equivalent of a wire cutter to stop branches or, as in my case, a speeding quad-bike driver from hitting you in the face.

He got hurt much worse.

[rossbart]

Rob & Charles,

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. I think adding some kind of deflector on the top edge is a great recommendation and I'll work on that. In addition to shedding water it would also add a bit more strength & rigidity to the front armor section (which is 'just' 1/4" plate)

I now have the left side all welded, smoothed and primed and it should be a relatively easier task of just mirror imaging the right side now. Unfortunately, due to work and a virus I haven't had much time on the carrier.

Hope to make some progress before long and will definitely post some pics.

In the meantime, I wonder if someone could just help me out with one or two measurements (please..) . Can someone let me know how deep and wide the two side air inlet boxes on a mk1 are at the top. I think I can figure out the height and angle from rivet holes in the hull, etc.. But, in particular, I cannot tell how thick it is from photos (which is all I have to go by).

Thanks for the help...

Ross

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by rossbart

Rob & Charles,

Thanks for the comments and suggestions. .... Unfortunately, due to work and a virus I haven't had much time on the carrier.

Somedays work is a virus! On the bright side, having a job means child support - we get to support our childish habits.

[Jordan Baker]

Hi Ross

Interesting "modern" adaptation for a carrier. While looking over your pictures I noticed yours still has the front rifle socket mounted. Could you take some pictures of it and how it mounts to the hull floor. Kevin had posted a few weeks ago trying to figure it out.

Thanks

[kevin powles]

Hi, I understand that there is a plate this butt holder is mounted too, before being fitted to the floor, A detailed shot of this area would solve the mystery or a close up of the plate would be great. Thanks Kevin. You certainly worked fast on that carrier!.

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by rossbart

Was about a 32 hour roundtrip to retrieve the carrier from Northwest of Chicago, IL to its new home in Southern Oklahoma. May be the last snow it ever sees...

Welcome aboard Ross and congratulations on your purchase. There are a couple of UC owners here in Texas (well, one has a T16) that can probably help you with dimensions for the missing armour and engine covers. Where in south Oklahoma are you? I'm all too familiar with that drive to Illinois, I bought my CMP from a seller in Elk Grove which is just west of Chicago and made the round trip from Corinth, Tx. in 46 hours. We have a very active reenactor community in the states bordering Texas and Oklahoma...are you planning on becoming a reenactor eventually? There is a good event at Ft. Washita every year which should be close to you and we're hoping that Camp Gruber will be resurrected. Half the fun of owning a HMV is restoring it, the other half is kitting it out with all the weapons, radios, and bric-a-brac that would have been carried on board during the war. Good luck on your restoration and hopefully we'll see you and your carrier at an event soon. Derek.

[alleramilitaria]

sapper
spent some time on the phone with kevin, seems like a good guy. he has a open invite to come down and take mesurements when ever he can.

also let me know if we all want to get the matting, im going up there some time to get some and ammo cans, will take the trailer so i can bring back up to 12000lbs.
dave

[rossbart]

Kevin & Jordon,

I will run get some photos & dimensions of the rifle butt plate in a few minutes and holler back. If it is helpful to you, Kevin, I would be glad to box it up and send it to you. As I remember, it is a little rust pitted, but still a good starting place for a refurb or refab.

Derek, I would love to rub shoulders with some comrades. However, I have a feeling that I might be shunned by the restorers as my carrier (obviously) is a bit of a modernized (or bastardized) variant. You'd have to ensure me personal protection...

Thanks,
Ross

PS - Though I have made very little progress for reasons mentioned, I will add a few pics of me and some buds playing aroung on the farm this past weekend.

[kevin powles]

Hi Ross, I have this old butt holder, If you have the plate to copy that would be fantastic, Looks like your carrier alot of fun.

Cheers Kevin.

[rossbart]

Interesting on that buttplate. I see the picture of the bracket on my carrier. That was a picture on ebay from the seller. However, the seller must have removed it before I picked it up because it is not there now. The flat plate, however, is there still.

Attached are a couple of pictures and rough dimensions. However, the plate is of unusual shape. I would be glad to pull it off and send it to you if you need it or want to re-fabricate one off of it.

Just drop me a note with your address.


Thanks,
Ross