Lend lease Chevrolet 30 cwt truck information

[cliff]

Originally Posted by jeff

When you say 'flat packed 'do you think that the chassis ,had the wheels off and boxed or that it was a rolling chassis with the cab boxed and sitting on top of the chassis. What about the front guards, grill, etc attached or packed? So there is another question, were they supplied from the U.S with the tray? Jeff.

The vehicles were CKD or Completely Knocked Down and complete in most cases with rear bodies. All they needed was to be assembled by Holden.

The attached photo from the AWM data base has the caption...


ID Number: 130235
Maker: Barrett, Reginald Mervyn
Physical description: Black & white
Summary: MOOREBANK, NSW. 1946-08-05. A VAST STACK OF CHEVROLET TRUCKS, STILL IN CASES AT 5 BASE ORDNANCE DEPOT.
Copyright: Copyright expired - public domain
Copyright holder: Copyright Expired
Related subject: Trucks
Related unit: 5 Base Ordnance Depot
Related place: Moorebank

Related conflict: Second World War, 1939-1945

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi Jeff and Eric - welcome to MLU. Attached is the instrumentation that your truck should have. Coincidently, I just happen to scratch build or restore these panels to full working condition. Contact me if interested.

Salesman Bob (If you've got it, flaunt it)

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by cliff

The vehicles were CKD or Completely Knocked Down and complete in most cases with rear bodies. All they needed was to be assembled by Holden.

Just to set the record straight:

Originally Posted by Hanno Spoelstra

CKD: Completely Knocked Down. CKD should not be confused with trucks being encased, after first being 'knocked down' as much as considered practical. CKD was restricted to destinations where the manufacturers had proper assembly plants. CKD entailed the supply of parts which could not - or not economically - be produced locally, supplemented by parts which could. Besides packing methods for trucks that had to be reassembled on arrival, the CKD-pack method was also used but this entailed parts and components which had not been assembled before and then dismantled for shipment. They comprised the necessary numbers of subassemblies and parts for a given quantity of chassis which would be assembled in much the same way as it was done in the Canadian factory.

As far as I know Holden did more than just assemble vehicles shipped over 100% complete.

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

CKD = Completely Knocked Down; kits of components in crates that when they arrived were a major headache as crates were lost and mixed up.

SKD = Semi Knocked Down; replaced CKD in England after first few hundred CMPs. Basically, as I understand, complete vehicles but disassembled into crates.

SUP = Single Unit Packs; complete vehicles without say bodies, shipped uncrated perhaps

TUP = Twin Unit Packs; two crates. I understand that these were two vehicles in one crate, as against one vehicle in two crates.

I believe that Holden's received CKD, SKD and SUP/TUP crates. Those chasiss that were CKD were components shipped across for complete assembly with Holden-built cabs, thus acquiring Holden chassis numbers. Those shipped SKD etc. were complete vehicles requiring some form of assembly or at the least bodying and thus carried a plate from the original N American plant.

[EricVincentHancock]

Hi All, I understood that 'flat packed' meant parts ready for assembly. This would be compacted and crated for shipping. Perhaps about 300 arrived in Western Australia in one ship. The chassis is rivited together and could also easily been assembeled with fairly simple machinery. The body is screwed and spot welded - again not complicated. My truck appears to be as per the 1942 manual I have with only small variations.
My chassis does not have a serial number (I sandblasted myself so should have seen if one existed).
Jeff (Dayboro) - I remember seeing a web page with a Chev optionional steel tray. I will post address when I find again.
Attached is my 1942 Chev in the 1960's and more recently prior to restoration commencement.
Regards, Eric

Chev pre restoration.jpg my Chev in 1960's.jpg

[EricVincentHancock]

Hi All, Look at web site www.brads41-46chevys.com and in heading Stake Bed there are good diagrams and info on stake bodies. the site also shows dimensions and break down of cabs. My cab is currently dismantled to the extent required to fix the floor and rusted panels. It can then be spot welded, screwed and bolted together again.
Regards, Eric

Rebuild of chassis.jpg cab dismantled.jpg Demolition.JPG

[jeff]

Hi Eric, the chassis number on all of our trucks is directly to the rear of the passenger side front spring rear hanger. Stamped in letters about 1/2'' high. Looks like the Perth assembled trucks put all the info on the body plate whereas Brisbane units only recorded a body number on the body plate and the serial no etc on the chassis. Most of the body and chassis numbers on the same truck are about 20 units apart. Which seems to indicate they were assembled seperately. Still can't work out whether cabs came over here complete or in pieces. Did you work out what colour your truck was originally? After seeing Cliff's attachment ,I've added some photos from the AWM showing boxes marked Chevrolet .

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David_Hayward

CKD = Completely Knocked Down; kits of components in crates that when they arrived were a major headache as crates were lost and mixed up.

SKD = Semi Knocked Down; replaced CKD in England after first few hundred CMPs. Basically, as I understand, complete vehicles but disassembled into crates.

SUP = Single Unit Packs; complete vehicles without say bodies, shipped uncrated perhaps

TUP = Twin Unit Packs; two crates. I understand that these were two vehicles in one crate, as against one vehicle in two crates.

I believe that Holden's received CKD, SKD and SUP/TUP crates. Those chasiss that were CKD were components shipped across for complete assembly with Holden-built cabs, thus acquiring Holden chassis numbers. Those shipped SKD etc. were complete vehicles requiring some form of assembly or at the least bodying and thus carried a plate from the original N American plant.

We should get this right once and for all.

CKD, Completely Knocked Down, is an really a different manufacturing system, rather than a different type of crating for shipment.

One type of manufacturing is to source all the parts required to assemble a certain type of vehicle, and assemble them into a working vehicle at an assembly plant in country A, test it, after which it is scrutinised and accepted by a goverment official. After full assembly, it can be partly dismantled and crated to be shipped to it´s destination in country B. The crating can be done at the assembly plant, or at a depot type of facility where vehicles are prepared for shipment.

Some types of vehicle can be easily (partly) dismantled and will be crated, others (like tanks) are sealed for weather influences. SKD , SUP, TUP etc. are all methods of packing complete vehicles into crates for shipping. At the destination nothing more than labour and tools are needed to uncrate the vehicle and re-attach the bits that have been removed to decrease it´s volume for efficient shipping.

Now, Completely Knocked Down means sourcing some parts required to assemble a certain type of vehicle in country A, crate these parts, and ship them to an assembly plant in country B where the shipped parts are uncrated and locally sourced parts are feeded to the assembly line after which a complete, running vehicle will emerge for the first time.

In the case of e.g. the Indian deliveries, Ford and Chevrolet both had local assembly plants or contractors, so they only had to send over chassis, engines, gearboxes, axles, cowl parts, etc. The local asembly plant(s) sourced bodywork, tyres, cab parts etc. to complete the vehicle.

I hope this sets the record straight.

I´ll get off my soapbox now

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

There is enough evidence to suggest that General Motors invented the term ''Completely Knocked Down' or CKD', and this started with the Tarrytown, New York plant and also Oshawa, Ontario (the latter late 1922 to November 1923). In fact it was probably specifically James D Mooney, then head (President) of General Motors Export Company as was. Tarrytown phased out CKD production in June-July 1925 in favour of Bloomfield Boxing Plant, whioch started on 21st May 1925 with crates leaving for GM International, Copenhagen. These were crates of components for local assembly, with local assembly plants adding their own cabs, tyres, etc. sourced locally if possible and of course4 bodies. GM India, Bombay, GM Near East, Alexandria, GM South African, Port Elizabeth, GM-Holden's (as would become from 1931), were all local assembly plants that received Bloomfield shipments, supplemented by chassis only from Oshawa to Holden's in/from 1935. Studies of magazines shows that chassis were shipped as components from 1925 for local welding -up and assembly. By 1936 Bloomfield announced the degree to which they had reduced crating size for their component-shipping. This expertise was later used during the war as the 1944 GM Overseas Operations was at pains to broadcast ( they blew their own trumpets!).

CKD shipments were attempted for CMPs in spring 1940 for British assembly in Southampton (and Dagenham) but the system was found wanting, and SKD replaced it rapidly.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David_Hayward

There is enough evidence to suggest that General Motors invented the term ''Completely Knocked Down' or CKD',
*snip*
This expertise was later used during the war as the 1944 GM Overseas Operations was at pains to broadcast ( they blew their own trumpets!).

This is endorsed by the differences in CKD content (what was shipped from Canada) between Chevrolet and Ford, as listed by Mike Cecil in the thread "Antipodean Ford CMPs" on the Old MLU Forum:

• Chevrolet: all chassis and mechanicals, wheels. Rest manufactured locally: complete cabs, complete bodies, spare tyre rack and tool box.
  
• Ford: all chassis, mechanicals, cab floor/lower cab frame, upper (windscreen) cab frame, doors, windscreen frames, front shell, wheels. Rest manufactured locally in Aust: cab floor, engine cover, cab back, roof, guards, spare wheel carrier & tool box, body.

H.