Revolver ID?

[Dean (Ajax)]

Kicking around here somewhere is a book on British Service revolvers.I remember reading that Canada recieved a pile of pistols from the US on a Lend Lease Bases..when Camp X opened they guurads first carried these Lead Lease Pistol before Automatiics were issued..and oother odd thiing, is that one type of these pistol could take 2 differant types of rounds..wish I could find my boook.

Dean

[sapper740]

Originally Posted by Dean (Ajax)

Kicking around here somewhere is a book on British Service revolvers.I remember reading that Canada recieved a pile of pistols from the US on a Lend Lease Bases..when Camp X opened they guurads first carried these Lead Lease Pistol before Automatiics were issued..and oother odd thiing, is that one type of these pistol could take 2 differant types of rounds..wish I could find my boook.

Dean

Dean, you're probably thinking about the .38 Long Colt and the .38 Special which were both U.S. service rounds used in the S.&W. Military and Police revolver. Their dimensions, other than length, were identical and thusly could be chambered in the same firearm. There are any number of revolvers that can chamber various rounds. Ignoring the numerous .22 RF cartridges and the various hand-cannons based on the .45-70 cartridge et al we'll concentrate on the centre-fire cartridges.

Any revolver chambered for the longest and highest pressure round will safely fire any shorter and lower pressure round:

.357 Maximum>.357 Magnum>.38 Spcl.>.38 Long Colt>.38 Short Colt

.444 Marlin(a rifle round)>.44 Magnum>.44 Spcl.>.44 Russian

There are currently both a revolver and a derringer being manufactured in the U.S. that will chamber both the .410 shotshell and the .45 LC and for a time Ruger made a revolver they called the convertible which had two cylinders, one for .38 Spcl and the other in 9mm Parabellum. Lastly, and not as well known is you can buy chamber inserts that will allow you to safely fire .32 Auto (7.65mm in Europe) in any rifle chambered for .30-30 Winchester, .308 Winchester/7.62 NATO, .30-06, or .300 Winchester Magnum. Derek.

[servicepub (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Dean (Ajax)

Kicking around here somewhere is a book on British Service revolvers.I remember reading that Canada recieved a pile of pistols from the US on a Lend Lease Bases..when Camp X opened they guurads first carried these Lead Lease Pistol before Automatiics were issued..and oother odd thiing, is that one type of these pistol could take 2 differant types of rounds..wish I could find my boook.

Dean

Dean,

There was a book a few years ago by Chamberlain and ??? which, although well researched from a Brit point of view, suffered fom a repetition of BS on the Canadian side. My book was based 100% on archival sources and official documents.
Canada did NOT receive Lend-Lease. We paid for everything we obtained from the US. In fact Canada was a supplier of 'Lend-Lease" athough we called it Mutual Aid.
There was a .45 Colt revolver that, with a half-moon clip, could accept a .45ACP round, designed for automatics. All revolvers in .38, .45 and .455 as well as all automatics in .45 were required for the war effort, and a campaign to collect these was established in 1943.

[cletrac (RIP)]

Derek, you could add the 38 S+w to the end of your list. That's the round the British Enfields take.

[Dean (Ajax)]

Clive, Thganks for slearing that up..I will have to dig that book out this weekkend...also I just started reading "Uot of the Shadows" Which is about how we got up to full production ect during WW2...very interesting so far.

Dean

[maple_leaf_eh]

My great uncle Blackie Paige had been a Mountie prewar, and joined No.1 Provost Company at the war's outset. He served throughout the war, and returned to peacetime policing. One of his jobs was guarding POWs.

As a boy I asked him if he'd ever had to shoot someone. Twice, he said. Shortly after DDay he had a loose cordon of wire around a large group of prisoners. One of them made a break for freedom. One shot he said.

(Of course, I can imagine the usual words of warning lost in the hubbub of a crowd. Then a man purposefully extracts his revolver and cocks it. With a deliberate one-handed stance he sights his target and fires. A hush fell. And nobody flucked with that Mountie ever again!)

He also had to shoot a man in self defence in Holland, when he found an armed straggler who wouldn't surrender. He kept that man's P38.

[Lang]

I am no expert on handguns but remember when I first joined the Australian Army in 1967 there were still S&W 38's in service. Apart from the fact the quality of construction was atrocious, their accuracy was about the same as all non-target pistols - I would accept a bet of only $100 to stand at 100 metres and give anyone one aimed shot at me. I think Terry's Mountie uncle was a lucky shot or got his man inside 20 metres.

The S&W were replaced by the beautifully machined Browning 9mm automatic - which of course was no more accurate. The S&W was kept in service for use by pay officers up until the 90's. When you collected the pay they gave you the tired old S&W with the same half dozen rounds, worn and shiny from being carried in a generation of pay officer's pockets. They were not to be put in the weapon unless you were being robbed. "Excuse me just hold that thought while I load my pistol." I never heard of one being used in anger.

I think the Army has very little use for pistols these days but I suppose a pistol is better than trying to stick someone with a bayonet from 2 metres.

[Geoff Winnington-Ball (RIP)]

It may interest you to know that the Canadian Army is still using the Browning Hi Powers manufactured by the John Inglis Co (here in Toronto) during World War II... I have no doubt that were we still using Brens we'd be carrying our own wartime Inglis-manufactured ones as well - quality goes a long way these days, I reckon!

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Lang

I think Terry's Mountie uncle was a lucky shot or got his man inside 20 metres.

Blackie was a champion rifle and pistol shooter indeed. His name is on many of the silver pots awarded by the Saskatchewan Provincial Rifle Association.

As for Browning HPs, I was carrying an 8T---- pistol for 6mos in AFG this time last year. Although not specific to CMP trucks and all, I have noticed the Canadian Forces' Brownings in circulation are more and more the later serial numbers. The WWII John Inglis marked magazines have been replaced (about fluckin' time!) with new Belgian commercial mags. The practise ammo is US commercial hardball, not good old IVI 9mm which is all overseas. And more than once lately have I seen the locking 'shank' on the barrels break or crack.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Lang

I think the Army has very little use for pistols these days but I suppose a pistol is better than trying to stick someone with a bayonet from 2 metres.

In my experience in three hostile environments, pistols are the preferred sidearm for low possibility conflicts. Rifles have a clear and definate place, but having a sidearm does give the soldier a means of protection when all else fails. Vehicle crews almost always had handguns.

The camp in AFG where I was had several distinct armed classes. The Canadians were always armed and carrying live ammo. The Americans had their rifles, but no ammo. The Brits had neither. The Aussies had their version of the Steyr AUG and Browning, but I forget whether they had ammo or not. The Dutch were unarmed and longhaired. The French had their FAMAS rifles and fashionable sidearms. Some Danes carried their early SIGs (those were not the same ones who wore sandals and shorts, and road bicycles).