22 CAR WD numbers

[Tony Viste]

This list appears as an appendix to the August 1944 War Diary for the 22 Cdn Armd Regt (CGG) (microfilm T-12727). It is probably from mid-June 1944.

Not only is it a regimental list of WD numbers, but also the employment of each vehicle within the regiment.

The format of the list is: Veh type, WD number, Employment, Squadron, Echelon.

Sher V, T 148158, Z4, HQ, -
Sher V, T 148566, Z3, HQ, -
Sher V, T 148619, Z2, HQ, -
Sher V, T 150260, Z1, HQ, -
Sher V, T 147921, A1, 1, -
Sher V, T 148706, A12, 1, -
Sher V, T 150472, A32, 1, -
Sher V, T 150586, A41, 1, -
Sher V, T 232117, A3, 1, -
Sher V, T 150594, A2, 1, -
Sher V, T 150612, A43, 1, -
Sher V, T 150660, A21, 1, -
Sher V, T 150691, A11, 1, -
Sher V, T 211913, A33, 1, -
Sher V, T 212662, A31, 1, -
Sher V, T 212686, A22, 1, -
Sher V, T 228520, A42, 1, -
Sher V, T 228753, A13, 1, -
Sher V, T 228772, A23, 1, -
Sher V, T 148187, B13, 2, -
Sher V, T 148307, B3, 2, -
Sher V, T 148549, B11, 2, -
Sher V, T 148551, B1, 2, -
Sher V, T 148622, B12, 2, -
Sher V, T 148643, B2, 2, -
Sher V, T 148714, B33, 2, -
Sher V, T 150302, B42, 2, -
Sher V, T 150617, B43, 2, -
Sher V, T 212294, B32, 2, -
Sher V, T 212597, B22, 2, -
Sher V, T 212609, B31, 2, -
Sher V, T 212677, B41, 2, -
Sher V, T 212681, B23, 2, -
Sher V, T 228641, B21, 2, -
Sher V, T 148464, C43, 3, -
Sher V, T 148540, C32, 3, -
Sher V, T 148550, C21, 3, -
Sher V, T 148582, C33, 3, -
Sher V, T 148590, C1, 3, -
Sher V, T 148591, C12, 3, -
Sher V, T 148679, C23, 3, -
Sher V, T 148702, C31, 3, -
Sher V, T 148722, C11, 3, -
Sher V, T 150503, C22, 3, -
Sher V, T 150523, C42, 3, -
Sher V, T 150568, C2, 3, -
Sher V, T 211868, C3, 3, -
Sher V, T 211898, C41, 3, -
Sher V, T 228595, C13, 3, -
Sher V, T 150608, C14, 3, - (given back to D Sqn on 25 Jun 44)
Sher Vc, T 228681, C44, 3, -
Recovery, T 148349, Rec, 2, A1
Recovery, T 148406, Rec, 1, A1
Recovery, T 148391, Rec, 3, A1
Stuart, T 226267, Recce, HQ, -
Stuart, T 231232, Recce, HQ, -
Stuart, T 231277, Recce, HQ, -
Stuart, T 213704, Recce, HQ, -
Stuart, T 226267, Recce, HQ, - (same WD as first Stuart ????)
Stuart, T 213736, Recce, HQ, -
Stuart, T 213739, Recce, HQ, -
Stuart, T 231138, Recce, HQ, -
Stuart, T 236311, Recce, HQ, -
Stuart, T 236300, Recce, HQ, -
Stuart, T 156690, Recce, HQ, -
Humber, F 196208, Sqn #2 Comd, HQ, A1
Humber, F 196213, Sqn #1 Comd, HQ, A1
Humber, F 196235, HQ, HQ, A2
Humber, F 196250, HQ, HQ, A1
Humber, F 196460, Sqn #3 Comd, HQ, A1
Humber, F 196718, HQ, HQ, A1
Humber, F 196733, RHQ, HQ, A1
Humber, F 196784, RHQ, HQ, A1
Humber, F 196795, Tech Adj, HQ, A1
15 cwt Armd HT, 4290013, Fitters, HQ, A2
15 cwt Armd HT, 5517525, MO, HQ, A1
15 cwt Armd HT, 5541364, MO, HQ, A1
15 cwt Armd HT, 5306108, Fitters, 3, A1
15 cwt Armd HT, 5541360, MO, HQ, A1
15 cwt Armd HT, 5306340, Fitters, 1, A1
15 cwt Armd HT, 5306411, Fitters, 2, A1
5 cwt, CM 1165830, Pro, HQ, A2
5 cwt, CM 4231072, Pro, HQ, A2
5 cwt, CM 4232880, 2i/c, HQ, A2
5 cwt, CM 4232882, CO, HQ, A2
5 cwt, CM 4232895, SL, HQ, A2
5 cwt, CM 4243614, Pro, HQ, A2
5 cwt, CM 4243619, QM, HQ, A2
5 cwt, CM 4233176, SL, 1, A2
5 cwt, CM 4242861, Sqn Comd, 2, A2
5 cwt, CM 4233172, SL, 3, A2
HUP, CZ 4211176, Office, HQ, A2
HUP, CZ 4214019, 2i/c, HQ, B
HUP, CZ 4228895, RQ-TQ, HQ, A2
HUP, CZ 4229545, Postal, HQ, A2
HUP, CZ 4229625, Armourer Eqpt Rep, HQ, B
HUP, CZ 4228891, SL, 1, B
HUP, CZ 4228897, Sqn Comd, 2, B
HUP, CZ 4228822, SL, 3, B
HUW, CZ 4254475, Wireless, HQ, A2
HUC, CZ 4211028, Pay, HQ, B
HUC, CZ 4228428, CO, HQ, B
15 cwt, CZ 4257441, Bty Chging, HQ, A2
15 cwt, CZ 4257524, Bty Chging, 1, A2
15 cwt, CZ 4257397, Bty Chging, 2, A2
15 cwt, CZ 4257429, Bty Chging, 3, A2
15 cwt, CZ 4209924, Water, HQ, A2
15 cwt, CZ 4228989, Water, HQ, A2
15 cwt GS, CZ 4229890, Cobblers, HQ, B
15 cwt GS, CZ 4229894, MQMS, HQ, A1
15 cwt GS, CZ 4286873, SQMS, 1, A2
15 cwt GS, CZ 4209660, SQMS, 2, A2
15 cwt GS, CZ 4229864, SQMS, 3, A2
15 cwt GS, CZ 4286028, Offrs Mess, HQ, B
3 ton GS, CL 4251306, Baggage, HQ, B
3 ton GS, CL 4264127, Pet, HQ, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4264263, Ammo, HQ, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4264376, Ammo, HQ, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4264448, Stores, HQ, B
3 ton GS, CL 4264449, Pet, HQ, B
3 ton GS, CL 4264456, Baggage, HQ, B
3 ton GS, CL 4264475, Ord Rm, HQ, B
3 ton GS, CL 4264487, Ammo, HQ, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4265424, Pet, HQ, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4265629, Ammo, HQ, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4265710, Cooks, HQ, B
3 ton GS, CL 4269299, MO, HQ, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4251317, Ammo, 1, A1
3 ton GS, CL 4264172, Pet, 1, A1
3 ton GS, CL 4264300, Stores, 1, B
3 ton GS, CL 4264380, Ammo, 1, A1
3 ton GS, CL 4264421, Ammo, 1, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4264469, Ammo, 1, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4264478, Pet, 1, A1
3 ton GS, CL 4264616, Baggage, 1, B
3 ton GS, CL 4265601, Ammo, 1, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4265756, Pet, 1, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4265787, Cooks, 1, B
3 ton GS, CL 4266134, Ammo, 1, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4251252, Baggage, 2, B
3 ton GS, CL 4251295, Ammo, 2, A1
3 ton GS, CL 4264233, Pet, 2, A1
3 ton GS, CL 4264320, Ammo, 2, A1
3 ton GS, CL 4264437, Stores, 2, B
3 ton GS, CL 4264447, Ammo, 2, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4264483, Pet, 2, A1
3 ton GS, CL 4264489, Pet, 2, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4264519, Ammo, 2, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4265376, Ammo, 2, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4265769, Ammo, 2, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4250347, Ammo, 3, A1
3 ton GS, CL 4251946, Pet, 3, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4264160, Baggage, 3, B
3 ton GS, CL 4264327, Pet, 3, A1
3 ton GS, CL 4264446, Pet, 3, A1
3 ton GS, CL 4264454, Stores, 3, B
3 ton GS, CL 4264480, Ammo, 3, A1
3 ton GS, CL 4264518, Ammo, 3, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4265305, Ammo, 3, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4265675, Cooks, 3, B
3 ton GS, CL 4264496, Ammo, 3, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4269830, Ammo, 3, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4265369, Cooks, 2, B
3 ton 6 w, CL 4248283, MT Stores, HQ, A2
3 ton 6 w, CL 4248374, Tk Spares, HQ, A2
3 ton 6 w, CL 4248275, Tech Stores, 1, A2
3 ton 6 w, CL 4248355, Tech Stores, 2, A2
3 ton 6 w, CL 4248368, Tech Stores, 3, A2
MC (solo), C 4193488, DR, HQ, -
MC (solo), C 4392945, DR, HQ, -
MC (solo), C 5267107, DR, -, -
MC (solo), C 5267177, DR, -, -
MC (solo), C 5267146, DR, -, -
MC (solo), C 5267131, DR, -, -
MC (solo), C 5267148, DR, -, -

Attached
3 Ton GS, CL 4265071, Aux Serv, -, A2
HUP, CZ 4228577, Padre, -, A2

Y Tp 4 Sqn Div Sigs
15 cwt W/T, CZ 4257067, W/T, -, A2
HUP, CZ 4211177, Wkshop, -, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4265020, Bty Charge, - A2

84 LAD
MC, C 4870553, DR, -, A2
15 cwt GS, CZ 4224868, -, -, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4250481, Stores, -, A2
3 ton GS, CL 4250828, Stores, -, A2
15 cwt Armd, CZ 4250177, Fitters, -, A1
15 cwt Mach KL, CL 4287765, Welder, -, A2
Trailer GS, CX 4236426, Office, -, A2
Trailer GS, CX 4253348, Welder, -, A2
Hy Breakdown, CH 4244785, Rec, -, A2

[kevinT]

I can add a few extras to your list:

T124835, T125317, T125319 and T126723 Crusader III, AA Mk II

T150622, T212261, T212270 and T212696 Sherman Vc's.

I have had a quick look and some of these WD's numbers also appear with the 1st Hussars, 2nd Irish Guards ( now a Vc ) and Lord Strathcona's Horse.
I will post any others I find.

Thanks for posting the listing.

Cheers
Kevin

[John McGillivray]

I took a look in the Regimental history of CGG. There is a photo of a Sherman with a name which appears to be Genevieve. Note that the last few letters after the “i”are not very clear because the tank was burnt. According to the caption the tank was KOed on 10 Aug. 1944 at Hill 195, and was commanded by Lt Gilbert Stairs. Also the C.O.’s tank is called Grenadier.

The number of CGG tanks KOed during the war is given as 135 (121 Shermans, 12 Stuarts and 2 Crusaders AA)

It is interesting that there is only one Firefly on the list. CGG turned in their last Ram tank on the 9th of June, while they started to receive their 17 pdr Shermans around the third week of June and completed their complement of vehicles.

[kevinT]

Do you think the Stuart T226267 might be a typo. According to a "Chilwell" list I have it states:-

T226038 - T228466 ( cont. T.12399 ) Carrier, 3" Mortar, No.1 Mk II, Wolsley

Admittedly not all of the numbers may have been used. Perhaps one of the Carrier experts could confirm?

Cheers
Kevin

[cletrac (RIP)]

It's interesting to note that all of the trucks look to be cab 13s except for 15 cwt GS, CZ 4209660, SQMS, 2, A2. That CZ number would be a Cab 11.

[Tony Viste]

Kevin,
I have uploaded a scan of the Stuart section. On the scan you can see that the first Stuart has a number of 236267 crossed out and the number 226267 written above it. I'm starting to think that the first number is the correct one.

John,
In the regimental history is there any indication which troops the troop leaders commanded? I was thinking about getting back into modeling and trying a Sherman V of Lt Phelan during his famous charge at Cintheaux on the afternoon of 8 Aug 44. But since you provided a tank name for Lt Stairs this may be the better route. If I knew which troop he commanded then I could get all three correct, (1) WD number, (2) tank name, (3) and tactical marking for a troop leader.

Thanks

[kevinT]

Looking at that scan I would say the the original typed number is correct. I know that all of the WD numbers within the various contracts were not used, but I am sure I have WD serials listed either side.

John,
I too would be interested if you have anymore names and or WD serials. At present I don't kowingly have any names listed for CGG.

Cheers
Kevin

[John McGillivray]

Originally Posted by Tony Viste

Kevin,
John,
In the regimental history is there any indication which troops the troop leaders commanded? I was thinking about getting back into modeling and trying a Sherman V of Lt Phelan during his famous charge at Cintheaux on the afternoon of 8 Aug 44. But since you provided a tank name for Lt Stairs this may be the better route. If I knew which troop he commanded then I could get all three correct, (1) WD number, (2) tank name, (3) and tactical marking for a troop leader.

Thanks

Lt. G. M. S. Stairs – 3Sqn – 3Tp
Lt. I. P. Phelan – 3 Sqn – 4 Tp

[John McGillivray]

Originally Posted by John McGillivray

I took a look in the Regimental history of CGG. There is a photo of a Sherman with a name which appears to be Genevieve. Note that the last few letters after the “i”are not very clear because the tank was burnt. According to the caption the tank was KOed on 10 Aug. 1944 at Hill 195, and was commanded by Lt Gilbert Stairs.

There appears to be an error in the CGG Regimental History.

The caption of the photo of the tank “Genevieve” states that it is the tank of Lt Gilbert Stairs who was KIA on the 10th of August 1944. The only problem is that Lt Stairs wasn’t killed on that day. In the honour roll it gives the date of Capt. G. Stairs’ death as being the 30th of Sept. In the text it gives the date of Capt. Stairs’ death as the 19th of Sept. 1944 as a result of mortar fire, i.e. not in a tank.

With a name like “Genevieve” I would think that this was one of the RHQ tanks and not form a fighting troop.

[Eugene_Watts]

Hello All newcomer to the forum.

I was wondering especially after seeing this thread as to the tactical Numbering of the tanks. I see here exp C41 and A21 what does that mean and is it the same as how I have seen a picture of the 27CAR IE 14 and 21.

So example as below would be A squadron 1st Troop and would A13 be a Firefly??

Sher V, T 147921, A1, 1,
Sher V, T 150691, A11, 1,
Sher V, T 148706, A12, 1,
Sher V, T 228753, A13, 1,

[Eugene_Watts]

Bumps up I am still searching, Also does anyone have a Photo of the Turret or rear of a CGG tank.

[David_Osborne]

Originally Posted by John McGillivray

With a name like “Genevieve” I would think that this was one of the RHQ tanks and not form a fighting troop.

I too would like to know who the specific commands or the troops were. My father had this photo from the CGG reunion in 1980. I would assume there are other plaques that would show the other squadrons as they all started with the letter "G" and Genevieve is one of the ones mentioned in his book. He served in Giraffe and was wounded 10 Aug 1944.

[MicS]

Originally Posted by Eugene_Watts

Hello All newcomer to the forum.

I was wondering especially after seeing this thread as to the tactical Numbering of the tanks. I see here exp C41 and A21 what does that mean and is it the same as how I have seen a picture of the 27CAR IE 14 and 21.

So example as below would be A squadron 1st Troop and would A13 be a Firefly??

Sher V, T 147921, A1, 1,
Sher V, T 150691, A11, 1,
Sher V, T 148706, A12, 1,
Sher V, T 228753, A13, 1,

I think the answers are "No" and "No".

A1 has to be the tac number for the first of 'A' Sqn HQ tanks, and the numbering for 'A' Sqn must be:
SHQ - A1, A2, A3
1 Tp - A11, A12, A13, A14 (not listed)
2 Tp - A21, A22, A23, A24 (not listed)
etc.

As noted by John above, there is only one Firefly in the list (labelled "Sher Vc, T 228681, C44, 3, -").

Obviously the regiment does not have its full complement of tanks yet: 'A' and 'B' Sqns only have 15 tanks each, whereas 1 & 4 Tps of 'C' Sqn have 4 tanks each, making up a total of 17 tanks, when full estalishment should be 19 tanks per squadron (3 in SHQ plus 4 in each of the 4 Tps).

Michel

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Tony Viste

This list appears as an appendix to the August 1944 War Diary for the 22 Cdn Armd Regt (CGG) (microfilm T-12727). It is probably from mid-June 1944.

Not only is it a regimental list of WD numbers, but also the employment of each vehicle within the regiment.

The format of the list is: Veh type, WD number, Employment, Squadron, Echelon.

*snip*
Sher V, T 150503, C22, 3, -
*snip*

Sherman V CT150503 "accompanied the regiment from England and moved with them through all ops until VE day" - see http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...402#post287402

[Colin Alford]

Here is the link to the list mentioned at the start of this thread:

https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/o...eel_t12727/628

As previously mentioned, there is no date on the list, and the regiment did not yet have it’s full complement of A vehicles ( they were still short Sherman Vc, and AA tanks).

Attached is an image of the first page.

[Colin Alford]

I have looked at the war diary to attempt to determine the likely date that the list was produced.

My best guess is approx 9 June 1944, given the state of waterproofing, and the regiment only having one Sherman Vc in their possession.

Attached is the relevant page from the 22 CAR war diary: https://heritage.canadiana.ca/view/o...el_t12726/1408