Morris PU: BEF Dunkirk? Unit, registration?

[Rich Payne]

There was a nice BEF marked Morris Commercial photo on eBay last week (Ron has seen this one).

Marked up to 145th Brigade from 48th (South Midland Division) and located in Cassel where the brigade held the German advance.

The original print for sale was a reversed image.

[Ian McCallum]

I am not sure from looking at the rear of the vehicle in the foreground that it is a Morris? Both the rear style of the buck and split canvas configuration are identical to that on my WOC1. Rear mudguards style is also identical. Will look out a relevant photo tonight and post it for consideration.

Ian

[Ron Pier]

You could be right Ian. My friend Rory will see if he can work out something from the Z number. He also has the Z number records for the WOC1's if you need them.
The little 8cwt body in slightly different formats was fitted to various vehicles. Morris, Ford, Humber, Chevy etc.
Ron

[Rich Payne]

I would never pretend to be able to identify from a rear-end photo but I'm pretty sure that the census number reads Z392064* Which would seem to place it under the Morris-Commercial contract V3517 (Z3919836 - Z3921632).

[Ron Pier]

Exactly the details Rory just gave me Z3919836-Z3921632 from Contract V3517..... Plus just above the Motorcycle seat at the bottom of tailboard is a welded plate. This was a Morris feature. The bodies weren't suitably supported on the PU chassis and had a tendency to split in this area. Ron

[S LATHERON (RIP)]

My father was a member of the BEF rear guard that fought against the German forces at Cassel. Finally being taken prisoner when the section he was in was eventually overrun. Most of the troops had run out of Ammunition and carried wounds of some sort. My father had a lucky escape when a petrol bowser took a direct hit and he was knocked over by a lump of truck chassis at the end of its flight. Must have been a flat section of steel as it did nothing more than heavy bruises to his shoulder and arm.
For the rest of the war he was a Guest of the Germans in both Poland and Germany. Towards the end of the war the prisoners were forced to march from POW camp to POW camp as the Red army looked set to over run the section of Germany that the Prison / stalag was in.
The camp was finally liberated by the Advancing US forces on Good Friday 1945.
Kenneth Latheron RIP 2007.
Stephen L

[malcolm erik bogaert]

my old uncle was in the rearguard with the RNF captured at St.Valery...spent the rest of the war as POW also in Poland and Germany...and along with many local old soldiers took part in the long march away from the advancing soviet forces...now they have all gone to there well earned rest...GOD BLESS THEM ALL.....regards malcolm

[Ian McCallum]

Originally Posted by Ron Pier

Exactly the details Rory just gave me Z3919836-Z3921632 from Contract V3517..... Plus just above the Motorcycle seat at the bottom of tailboard is a welded plate. This was a Morris feature. The bodies weren't suitably supported on the PU chassis and had a tendency to split in this area. Ron

Should have engaged brain before responding and checked census numbers myself! Also did not spot the welded plate on the nearside rear. Ford census numbers all started with '4' being 4128194 - 9193 in contract V3615 and 4129194 - 30193 in contract V3730. Rear of my Ford WOC1 for info. Census number is its original, making it the 489th built within the first contract and December 39/January 40 build. Markings are for the 1st Battalion Suffolk Regiment, part of 8 Brigade / 3 Infantry Division BEF

[Ron Pier]

Aint she sweet. I remember John and Mary Worthing had one when I first met them, well over 20 years ago. I think it's still featured in there canvas adds.

Ron

[Alex van de Wetering]

Stephen, Malcolm

Very interesting to hear the story of your relatives! Somehow we seem to forget that not all veterans were taking part in D-day or the battle in Italy. 5 years going from POW camp to POW camp must have been quite an experience and I wonder how these guys managed to follow the progress of the war...during these years.

Rich, at first...great picture and again it amazes me how you guys manage to tell the rear of the Morris apart from a WOC or Humber (Ron!). It does show that my model needs a few extra plates added , but given the fact that I also forgot to fit the step on the inside tailgate...

Should have engaged brain before responding and checked census numbers myself!

Ian, nevermind....at least we can now enjoy some pictures of the terrific WOC.

Alex

[cletrac (RIP)]

I think this one is from around Dunkirk but I'm not sure if it's a Morris or not.

[Dennis Gelean (RIP)]

Has any one made a model of a Canadian Salvation Army canteen truck,used in
England and Europe, Holland (English made) or restored one?

[chrisgrove]

The problem with 4RNF is that 50 Div was a Motor Division and had (at least some) different numbers from a standard Infantry Division. Unless Dick Taylor has produced one in Vol 2 of 'Warpaint' (which I have not yet got), none of my references give the numbers for a 1940 Motor Division, though people seem to agree that 4RNF had 18 on red.
The PU in this pic should have its 20 on green, as representing the Brigade HQ of 144 Infantry Brigade.

Chris

Oops; my first post on here and I expected it to appear much higher up , on Page 1. I expect you can work out which pic I was referring to.

[Rich Payne]

Hello Chris. As you say, I don't think there's much argument about the '18' for 4 RNF as there are plenty of captioned photographic records which clearly indicate the unit, as does the concentration of Norton outfits.

According to Hodges & Taylor, the '20' appeared on brown and would thus indicate 145 Bde who were certainly captured at Cassel.

[chrisgrove]

Hi Rich

Don't know why I went for green - I should have double checked before I went on line!! As you say, HQ 145 Bde, not 144, though my reference was Malcolm Bellis combined with Hodges/Taylor!
Chris

[Ron Pier]

Ian. I've just been sent this picture by my friend Rory. I don't know if you've seen it or if it's been posted before.

A captured WOC1. Ron

[Ian McCallum]

Hi Ron,

Yes I have seen this one before. There is also another one I believe taken in Greece, of the vehicle upside down in a ditch as a result of officer attempting to drive it. There are two 'abandoned' vehicle shots of the WOC1 during the evacuation that I am trying to source a decent copy of. One is a front view with canvas off and contents strewn around with what appears to be a dock building in the background. I obtained a poor photocopy with the vehicle which indicates it comes from a French language book. The other actually featured on the MLU site some time ago and showed the WOC1 plus others abandoned on a quayside with again buildings as a backdrop. Any info as to where these are published, or any other WOC shots would be gratefully appreciated.

Ian