WTK: C6 Mounts for Iltis, Command and Reconnaisance & Other Mounts

[maple_leaf_eh]

I just remembered something. There was a huge investigation* after an Iltis patrol had a minestrike on a route that was arguably cleared and not cleared. That would be in the Jowz (sp?) Valley, near Kabul on Oct. 2, 2003. The section commander, Sgt. Robert Short, and another colleague, Cpl. Robbie Beerenfenger, were killed. The paperwork for the report will have photos! If you can figure out the name and contents of the report, then do an Access to Information request, off you go.

The Canadian legal requirement is to investigate all casualties and issue a report. In the beginning it was a big deal "to get to the bottom of this". Nowadays, I suspect the report is much less staff work. This brevity can be a problem if the death has unclear circumstances, like cowboy contractors also engaging the enemy in the area. But that is another story.

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

If you can figure out the name and contents of the report, then do an Access to Information request, off you go.

Rant button firmly pressed:

As a former staff type I can only say that submitting an ATI request for the "report" just for the sole purpose of finding a photo of a piece of equipment is both troubling and a waste of staff time that could be better spent on administering the troops.

If you had any idea of the amount of work that it takes to process these "flights of fancy", or if you had to do it yourself, you would shake your head. If you are putting together the package, which as stated is a legal requirement, you are not putting your effort towards your job.

The average joe at the HQ processes these ATI requests - not a specialist. So, the next time you want a picture of your truck with its CFR painted on the side and want to go the ATI way, keep in mind that if the staff is engaged in that bullshit, they are not "supporting the troops".

Leave the ATI request for "real" and "important" issues. Using MLU is far easier than wasting your time, and more importantly the staffs' time.

Rant button released...

Man, I hated ATI requests...Here is a sample: "Provide all the paperwork involving the entire lifecycle for the C1 Howitzer from 196? to present day"

Get the picture (pun not intended)?

[T. Alcorn]

I'm not going to bother the system with requests for morbid photos. Appreciate the thought, though.

I may ask someone to look up the registration number to find out who mine belonged to.....PPCLI, 22eRgt, etc.

I found a few more photos of Canadian Forces Iltis with GiMPiG Mounts:
This one appears to be a soft mount on the rollbar:


And this one is some sort of improvised mount:


Found two more Belgian Iltis with a GiMPiG soft mount by the co-driver:

[Young_Law]

After doing a quick Google search for "GPMG vehicle mount" or simply GPMG mount, (along with variations of C6 or M240 in lieu of GPMG) a few sites came up.

http://www.sageinternationalltd.com/si/mount/soft.html Although not the pictured type, it may be of interest to you.

http://www.manroy.com/html/gpmg_buffered_mount.html

The ones in use by the CF in the above pictures all have the common element of being buffered mounts (just like our sustained fire tripod).

The variations might indicate, and allow you a freedom in the choice of mount for your Iltis. Just wondering, do you have an M240 to mount with it?

I hope you'll post pictures of your finished project when it comes to fruition!

Hope this helped a bit.

[T. Alcorn]

Richard,
I will be mounting an airsoft M240B on the beast. Inokatsu makes a steel body kit in steel and aluminium. The steel version weighs about 24lbs, the aluminum 16lbs. I can't buy a demilled M240 for less than $4000. And by time I try to buy demilled parts, repair, fabricate, etc, I'll have into it the same an airsoft costs.

The C6 body kit has room inside if I ever want to run a propane/oxygen firing system. Same for the C9A1.
Ideally, I'd like to have the C9A1 for the co-driver and a C6 on the rollbar. But, with the almost $2000 for an airsoft, its cheaper to put an M2 .50 in an M23 mount.
I've got some ideas going for the simplified German-style M2 pintle mount, cast in 7071, heat treated to T6 then hardcoat anodized.

[T. Alcorn]

Originally Posted by Young_Law

After doing a quick Google search for "GPMG vehicle mount" or simply GPMG mount, (along with variations of C6 or M240 in lieu of GPMG) a few sites came up.

http://www.sageinternationalltd.com/si/mount/soft.html Although not the pictured type, it may be of interest to you.

I heard back from Sage International, the above soft mount:


$1464.00 each, plus shipping. Ouch!

IF this is the proper mount, at least the top part, I need to decide just how bad I want it. I would still have to fabricate the adjustable height pedistal:


I have a lead on the pintle mentioned earlier but I wont have a pic until next month when the lead visits the seller.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

I just remembered something. There was a huge investigation* after an Iltis patrol had a minestrike on a route that was arguably cleared and not cleared. That would be in the Jowz (sp?) Valley, near Kabul on Oct. 2, 2003. The section commander, Sgt. Robert Short, and another colleague, Cpl. Robbie Beerenfenger, were killed. The paperwork for the report will have photos! If you can figure out the name and contents of the report, then do an Access to Information request, off you go.

The Canadian legal requirement is to investigate all casualties and issue a report. In the beginning it was a big deal "to get to the bottom of this". Nowadays, I suspect the report is much less staff work. This brevity can be a problem if the death has unclear circumstances, like cowboy contractors also engaging the enemy in the area. But that is another story.

That entire report is available open source online. As for the who, what, when, where, and why, is probably better left for another time. As a Combat Engineer, I can attest that it quite literally changed the way we did business, until we rolled into Kandahar anyway. Basically in a nutshell, we had to change our terminology from "Proven or Cleared Route" to "High, Medium or Low Risk Route" and adjust a whole bunch of procedures to align with the Route Threat Level catagorizing system. It was a risk adverse time when you still had to check to make sure people had their Ballistic Plates in their vests and sadly, a Casualty had to be "someones fault" rather than balancing risk with mission objectives. IMO, the Iltis had ZERO to do with it, and as it turned out, it didn't take long for the Up Armoured G-Wagons to be labeled "Widowmakers" either. In its final stages, determining who was riding in what was almost like drawing straws. That too is another story

[Scott Bentley]

I did a Google Image Search using "Jowz Valley" as key words.

[maple_leaf_eh]

I asked my friend Dan Mathews* who was following the damaged ILTIS in the incident and who prodded forward to one of the casualties, about the roll bars. In a nutshell, I mentioned a fellow collector who wanted to replicate an ISAF Kabul ILTIS from 3RCR. He said, beat it with a hammer! As for the roll bars, they asked the Mat Techs to build them something. He did not remember the mounts, but I imagine they did exactly the same. So, do some photo interp' and start welding. He pointed out that the BOI report was on line, so there was no need to make any formal requests.

*Dan Mathews, Star of Courage