Pattern '37 Bren Mag pouches

[kajn65]

Hi!

I recently purchased 2 of these Rear Bren Gun (Utility) Pouches from a local tool/hardware store, Princess Auto (www.princessauto.com), p/n 8305303; thinking that they were Basic Pouchees.

I paid $9.99 each plus the 13% Nova Scotia Provincial Sales, which came to a total of $22.58 Canadian for the pair.

They are in mint, new, factory-unissued condition (no stains or fadding); tan in color; C-Broad Arrow marked; Manufacturerstamped Z.L.&T.Ltd. (Zephyr Looms & Textiles Limited); 1940 War Dated; have brass snap closure and strap attaching hardware (no oxidization or corrosion); and are inked stamped "REAR" on the center of their backs.

It is my understanding that the soldiers who used the Utility Pouches as a set (Rear Pouch, Front Pouch with Waiste Belt permanently sewn on the bottom of its back, and the Yoke Strap) in their respective units, commonly referred to them as the Bren Gun Bra. My Senior NCO of my Re-Enactment Unit, Maritimes World War 2 Re-Enactment Unit (We're on Kijiji and Facebook.), advised me that they had a set of these in his last Re-Enactment Unit in northern British Columbia.

Would anyone be able to tell me where I can get my hands on a Yoke Strap; and, if possible, the Waiste Strap in the same condtions as my 2 Rear Utility Pouches mentioned above?

Ideally, I would like to use my to rear pouches to make up my Bren Gun Bra Set. Is this possible? If not, where can I get my hands on 2 Font Pouches with attached Waiste Belt and 2 Yoke Straps (in same condtion as my Rear Pouches stated above)?

Your assitance in this matter would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks and keep up the good work on this site!

Rgs...Pte. Keyan Noble
Rifleman, Dutch Resistance Fighter & Unit Weapons NCO
Maritimes World War 2 Re-Enactment Unit

[kajn65]

Hi!

Enclosed below is the product and vendor information.

Princess Auto-Winnipeg Mail Order Office
P.O. Box 1005
Winnipeg, MB
Canada
R3C 2W7
Phone Toll Free: 1-800-665-8685
Fax Toll Free: 1-800-265-4212
Shop Online: www.princessauto.com

Note: Princess Auto has stores all across Canada. See their Online Catalogue for their contact information.

The Rear Utility Pouches were purchased in the Surplus Section of thier store here in Halifax, Nova Scotia, Canada; and may not be listed in their Online Catalogue. These pouches are listed as: Pouch, p/n 8305302.

I hope this information is useful to any of those who are interested.

Rgs...

Pte. Keyan Noble
Rifleman, Dutch Resistance Fighter & Unit Weapons NCO
Maritimes World War 2 Re-Enactment Unit

[Jordan Baker]

I posted in another thread that I have the yokes for $2 each plus shipping. Just send me a PM with your details and I'll get them out to you.

[Ed Storey]

These pouches are called UTILITY POUCHES, they are NOT called Bren Pouches NOR are should they ever be called a 'Bren Gun Bra'. These pouches were designed to carry a variety of SAA, Ammunition, Magazines and even a Water Bottle. The set consists of a Front and Rear Pouch with a Yoke. This is what the set looks like.





The Utility Pouches were designed to carry any of these items.

[Jordan Baker]

Keyan,

I'll send you a PM tonight as I have some of the Bren Gun Bra Yokes. I should be able to get you some for the ZLT 1940 stamps.

[kajn65]

Good Morning All!

In reference to edstorey's last post: The naming of these pouches.

He is correct on this matter to a certain extent. The "Actual Military Name" for these pouches (either when used as a set; or just the Front Pouch) is the "Utility Pouch". The other commonly referred to names used here refer to the specific use by specific military personnel; namely, Bren Gun Crews.

We all know that these pouches can each hold 3-30 round Bren Gun Magazines. Right? That's a given. Therefore, from a Bren Gunner's perspective, comes one of the given common names, the "Bren Gun Pouch".

The "Bren Gun Bra" name is derived from the way these Utility Pouches are worn and used by the Bren Gun Crews. All other military personnel would simply call these pouches the "Utility Pouch" when worn or used differently. (See my earlier posts.)

In this manner, the Front Pouch is found in its usual location-Left Chest Area; and the Rear Pouch is found on the Right Chest Area. The Yoke Strap is slung over the wearer's neck, while the Waist Strap is wrapped around his torso. This method somewhat resembles a woman's undergarment ... the bra. Therefore, from the Bren Gunner's perspective, comes the other common name for these pouches, the "Bren Gun Bra".

This format allows quick and easy access to the Bren Gun Magazines for the Bren No. 2 (the person who loads and unloads the magazines from the Bren Gun, normally a Private) from both the Bren Group Leader (the person in charge of the Bren Gun Crew, a Lance-Corporal) and himself; while the Bren No. 2 (the person who carries and operates the Bren Gun, normally a Private) concentrates on firing the Bren Gun on enemy targets.

For the Bren Gun Crews in the 1st Canadian Parachute Battalion (aka-1st CanPara) this method was standard; not only in combat and training exercises, but in Parachute Jumping as well. This allowed the jumping Bren Gun Crews to carry all the necessary Bren Gun Ammo to complete their mission, while wearing a parachute on their backs and jumping out of an aircraft.

To make a long story short ... we are both correct in the names of these pouches. It's just the matter of context of how they were used and by whom.

Finally, I take no offence to edstorey's comments in his last post. Nor do I intend the same to him or any other member of this forum in this one. Infact, I find edstorey's posting informative, useful and very well laid out. My soul intention was to clairify all the terminology used in this subject; and by no means imply that I know all if it.

Keep up the good work!

Rgs...

Pte. Keyan Noble
Rifleman, Dutch Ressistance Member & Unit Weapons NCO
Maritimes world War 2 Re-Enactment Unit

[Ed Storey]

Keyan:

Are you currently in the military? If not, then please do us all a favour and stop signing your posts with your re-enactment rank.

Your attempt to explain terminology from a 'Bren Gunner's perspective' only muddies the water and is I suspect based on re-enacter information and not facts from 70 years ago. Your 'given common names' are not correct and nor are we 'both correct' as you state, but far from it. You are in fact incorrect in using made up names in order attempt to give a name to a piece of web equipment that already has an established official name, that being Utility Pouches.

If you wish to compare web equipment to ladies undergarments or make up pet names for the pieces then go ahead and enjoy yourself, just stop trying to convince everyone else that these names are correct or somehow fit into their use during the Second World War.

Have a look at a copy of the Fitting Instructions for 1937 Pattern Web Equipment and you will learn not only the correct terminolgy for the individual pieces, but also how they were to be used.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by kajn65

The "Bren Gun Bra" name is derived from the way these Utility Pouches are worn and used by the Bren Gun Crews.

In this manner, the Front Pouch is found in its usual location-Left Chest Area; and the Rear Pouch is found on the Right Chest Area. The Yoke Strap is slung over the wearer's neck, while the Waist Strap is wrapped around his torso. This method somewhat resembles a woman's undergarment ... the bra. Therefore, from the Bren Gunner's perspective, comes the other common name for these pouches, the "Bren Gun Bra".

This is interesting! Do you have any pictures of the pouches being worn in this manner? The reason for one pouch being worn on the left front and the other on the left rear is the awkwardness of carrying and firing the Bren "from the Hip". It is normally carried slung from the right shoulder with the receiver and magazine right where you suggest the front right pouch would be. The mags are changed and replaced with the left hand, so a pouch on the left rear is quite accessible, particularly when laying prone.