Wanted: Reloadable Canadian War Dated .303 Brass

[kajn65]

Tony (or others),

Are inert version of .303 Blank, Tracer, Grenade Launching and Armour Piercing; and their applicable packing boxes available to purchase for display purposes?

I have heard the "Live" Armour Piercing round may be illegal to own here in Canada. However, I haven't been able to confim that yet.

Rgs...

Keyan

[rob love]

Keyan
There are safety reasons why dummy ammunition is made to look different from regular ammunition. It is so it can be easily identified as such. There are never primers in dummy ammo, and normally small holes are drilled through the sides so it can be easily ID'd as dummy. As you have mentioned, some is also chromed and some is fluted as well.

Might I suggest that you, at a minimum, have the primers out of your dummy ammo, and give consideration to drilling 3 small holes on the sides of the cases. While authenticity is important for re-creations, an incident or accident does more harm to people in many different hobbies than the good which comes from ammo which appears live.

If you want to re-wrap dummy rounds (or even small blocks of wood for that matter) it is too easy to print up your own wrappers on a computer and fill most of the case that way. Just go with the more expensive dummy rounds on the top layer.

[kajn65]

Hi Rob,

Myslef, as well as members of my Re-Enactment Unit, have strongly considered doing what you advised to do to the Inert .303 Rounds in order to prevent misidentification between Inert Ammunition and Live ammuntion.

However, ther are a couple of points I neglected to mention in my previous post on the subject. So it is probably best that I mention them now before progressing any further, as they do hold quite heavily to why I'm asking for my .303 casings to be in a certain condition.

Firstly, our group has a strong possibilty of doing future volunteer work with the local War Museum on Parks Canada's Citadel Hill here in Halifax. Talks are still in progress with one of our Unit's representatives.

The museum is asking our Unit to do displays inside the museum; and to set up an encampment on their grounds, while allowing the general public to view our equipment and ask general qquestions.

Secondly, Inert .303 British Ammuntion, with: either Spent or Dummy Primers intact, Service Mk7 or Mk8 Bullets installed; and, their cases not drilled are readily available for purchase by internet vendors located in Britain and Europe for a modest price. They look like Live Ammuntion except they don't have the feel (weight) of such. The same also holds true to authentic WW2 ammuntion that are describing us to make.

As a result, our group has decided to keep our equipment, ammunition, other ordinance, etc. as authentic looking as possible; while having provisions or safe guards in place to protect the general public and our members.

It's our Unit's policy to only have Deactivated or Inert Ordinance of any type on hand for publuic displays, school lectures, Leagion Re-Unions, parades, Military Collector & Trade Shows, encampments, etc. When requested, the public is given the option of handling such while under the constant supervision of a member. Live Blanc Ammunition is restricted to Military Ceremonies, parades, encampments, etc. when requested by the parties hosting such events. Live Ammunition is only used at the range.

It's also our Unit's policy, just before attending any Unit function listed above, to have at least 2 members inspect, prove and record any type of ordinance (inert, live, drill, instructional, etc.) used; in what quantities; and by whom. It's always under constant supervision of a Unit member. All Inert Ammunition is stored and transported as if it were Live Ammunition; and is kept in a lockable container when doing so.

It's nice to know that there are fellow collectors and/or re-enactors out htere who are safety minded as our members are. It's an important aspect of this hobby that must not be forgoten.

As I previously mention, I only have 1 authentic WW2 chrome plated .303 Drill Round. Eventually I will have more for my Display Kit. The same also holds true to other authentic WW2 Instruction or Drill Rounds (ones with the primers removed and the cases drilled), when funds permit.

It seems that I'm the only one in my group who is interested in doing such a thing. Hence, my specific request(s).

Rgs...

Keyan

[cletrac (RIP)]

I can see the safety issue with dummy ammo if you use live primers since that could lodge the bullet in the barrel if fired. With WW2 dated .303 ammo, I can't imagine anyone trying to fire the real stuff. I had a bunch back in the 1960s and about a quarter of it wouldn't fire then. If one didn't fire you had to put the gun pointing in a safe direction and leave it for a while. You couldn't be sure if they were going to fire in a few seconds or minutes or whatever. A dummy round would be way safer than that, holes or no holes!

[rob love]

Originally Posted by cletrac

I can see the safety issue with dummy ammo if you use live primers since that could lodge the bullet in the barrel if fired. With WW2 dated .303 ammo, I can't imagine anyone trying to fire the real stuff. I had a bunch back in the 1960s and about a quarter of it wouldn't fire then. If one didn't fire you had to put the gun pointing in a safe direction and leave it for a while. You couldn't be sure if they were going to fire in a few seconds or minutes or whatever. A dummy round would be way safer than that, holes or no holes!

I fire WW2 ammo all the time; I have over 20,000 rounds of it. It all depends on how it was stored over the last 70 years. I know the hangfires of which you speak, they are especially noticeable in the late fall and winter with some versions of 303 (especially the Indian stuff).

However the safety I speak of wrt no primers in the pockets (expended or otherwise) and small holes drilled through the sides is to enable one to easily distinguish the dummy rounds from live ammo. Accidental mixing of live and blank, live and dummy, dummy and blank, can all result in in death or injury. No amount of authenticity is worth the safety factor involved.

In the military, very strict rules are involved with regard to live/training ammunition and ordnance. Yet still incidents happen every year. Intentionally making your dummy ammo look too real is not a good idea in my opinion.

Keyan: I have several hundred rounds of the chrome dummy 303 ammo. I may be talked into parting with some of it, but it will be a bit more than the 50 cents a round you paid for your one.

[horsa]

We've done a lot of WWII displays over time and at first made really accurate looking dummy rounds. Figured it would be OK simply having dimpled primers since we're usually doing events in Texas which is for the most part a gun friendly place. But over time we encountered more and more venues where the cartridges needed to be easily inspected for being inert or they couldn't be brought into the facility. Dimpled primers with the bullets in the end of the cases indicate a hung round to most people and they sure were not going to rattle them around to see if they were free of powder or cordite so we could display them with weapons.

Given the option of possibly not having a belt of display ammunition in a Vickers or using cases with drilled holes in the sides or fluted drill rounds and always being able to display them, we chose the less authentic approach.

The general public is OK with items being visibly demilled in the case of ammunition as nobody expects you to have working firearms laid out and ready to shoot in your display.

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by kajn65

However, ther are a couple of points I neglected to mention in my previous post on the subject. So it is probably best that I mention them now before progressing any further, as they do hold quite heavily to why I'm asking for my .303 casings to be in a certain condition.

...... Inert .303 British Ammuntion, with either Spent or Dummy Primers intact, Service Mk7 or Mk8 Bullets installed....... They look like Live Ammuntion except they don't have the feel (weight) of such. The same also holds true to authentic WW2 ammuntion that are describing us to make.

It seems that I'm the only one in my group who is interested in doing such a thing. Hence, my specific request(s).

Keyan

I don't think there is a human alive who can feel the weight of an assembled cartridge and determine whether or not if it contains 39gns of propellant! If this is your safety method for ensuring you do not mix live and dummy ammunition, it has a serious potential for error.

Your request was also quite specific regarding Boxer primers. Why is that? While Berdan primer cases can be reloaded, it is a much more time consuming process, and as such Berdan cases lend themselves much more readily to making dummy cases. Also, Boxer cases tend to have a higher value due to their higher utility with modern reloaders. You could possibly get as many Berdan cases as you like for free at a Service Rifle shoot, while the Boxer cases will be jealously hoarded. The vast majority of WW2 .303 was Berdan primed, so that will be your most common find.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Originally Posted by Tony Smith

...

Your request was also quite specific regarding Boxer primers. Why is that? While Berdan primer cases can be reloaded, it is a much more time consuming process, and as such Berdan cases lend themselves much more readily to making dummy cases. Also, Boxer cases tend to have a higher value due to their higher utility with modern reloaders. You could possibly get as many Berdan cases as you like for free at a Service Rifle shoot, while the Boxer cases will be jealously hoarded. The vast majority of WW2 .303 was Berdan primed, so that will be your most common find.

That is how I turn my 'fulls' into 'empties'. And yes, Canadian nitrocellulose DIZ ammo is still competitive in the matches that I shoot. I have probably 6 boxes of 48 rounds of late WWII/Korea vintage ball. Except for some new Privi Partisan 190-odd gr soft points, that is all I buy. I haven't seen much foreign surplus wartime ammo here.

Whenever I get my act together (ie a better powder measure, a tumbler and a scales I can trust) I'll get around to reloading some of the half-dozen cartridge case types I've squirrelled away. Since I have a number of No.4 rifles, I will shoot what I've got.

BTW, I don't know where you're going to find loose nickle plated ball bullets.

[Radek]

Any time ago I have bought original 303 box. Now I have made my own repro boxes. (the original one is with the black tipe)
I have bought fired ww2 cases and made repro bullets. The bullets are made from Sn (tin).
I thing looks great for desplay.

[Radek]

Could I ask how was stored the ammo in this wooden boxes? Separately or in boxex?