WTK: C6 Mounts for Iltis, Command and Reconnaisance & Other Mounts

[T. Alcorn]

Well, I decided to build my own GPMG Mounting kit based on the Belgian version. I guestimated the size tubing needed to be 1.75" OD, 0.125" wall. Here's my mount, lightly Mig welded to get me thru the parade, intend to go over it with Tig, make it look nice, and finish the locking mechanisms:




Here's my friend with his son. I bought a RCA Cadet Beret Crest for him kitted him out as a C9 Gunner. He had fun sawing the crowd the airsoft C9A1 I built from an M249 Para.


This one was taken the week before. Notice the crappy tan overspray around the stencil, just like in 2002, eh? This was supposed to be an A Coy 3PPCLI display for the 101st Airborne Division (my old outfit) Band up in Denver, but she jumped timing on the interstate, got towed home.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Only one problem I see with your display - wrong cap badge! It should be an RCR star not PPCLI. (Yeah, 3rd Bn of each regiment is Light Infantry and each one has a jump company, but don't confuse the two units.) Other than that, you've nailed it. As Dan told me, their Materials Techs made the mounts for them locally. As the photo evidence shows, the mounts could look like almost anything. And as the tour close-out pictures show, those vehicles were left behind for the Afghans.

[T. Alcorn]

Originally Posted by maple_leaf_eh

Only one problem I see with your display - wrong cap badge! It should be an RCR star not PPCLI. (Yeah, 3rd Bn of each regiment is Light Infantry and each one has a jump company, but don't confuse the two units.) Other than that, you've nailed it. As Dan told me, their Materials Techs made the mounts for them locally. As the photo evidence shows, the mounts could look like almost anything. And as the tour close-out pictures show, those vehicles were left behind for the Afghans.

Terry,
That gig as C 3PPCLI was because they were attached to the 187th Brigade Combat Team (101st AB Div) in 2002. That was my tie-in, for a non-US vehicle at the band gig.
Udderwise, I like the 3RCR because The Skunque came out of Petawawa. I had some original, worn in-theatre ISAF patches and IR Cdn Flags, etc coming to me, but they disappeared in the mail. Box arrived totally empty. What a freakin' let down. There are fake ISAF patches on eBay, these were actually worn over there and were being donated to my little "rolling museum"

I have yet to post over on the RCR Forum or the Army.ca forum.. so far all I've got are positive remarks. They may be a bit more critical over there.

[strat1]

Tom

The mount for the TOW Iltis came from the Lav-25 Coyotes that were there as part of the Op Apollo mission. The order came down to strip them off and send them to the Iltis crews.I was a Coyote crew commander during that tour back in 2002.

Anthony

[T. Alcorn]

Thanks for the information, Anthony. I just received this mount from a scrounger:


Has a detachable brass catcher:


The ammo can holder is too small to fit a US .30 cal can. Are the Canadian 7.62 NATO Cans smaller than ours? We continued to use the same can from the 1950's for the M1919A4 but holds two 100rd bandoleers for the M60 or M240B.

Anyhooo, I will probably be mounting this one up on the roll bar maybe with a verticle support between the front seats.

If I can get the gigs worked off, I may take my Skunque out to the big .50 cal and MG shoot they hold here in Colorado every May. Might be a chance to live-fire off of my rig.

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by T. Alcorn

... I bought a RCA Cadet Beret Crest for him kitted him out as a C9 Gunner.

I think your vehicle restoration is quite well done. I won't get into the "wearing of in-service dress by re-enactors" issue, but will comment on the "cadet" dress. I think I know what you are getting when you mention "RCA". For accuracy's sake, the proper name/abbreviation for the army cadets are Royal Canadian Army Cadets/RCAC. In the Canadian Forces, RCA is the abbreviation for Royal Canadian Artillery. These are two very different organizations. The cadets are a youth group, while the RCA are dealers of death by long distance.

Keep up the great vehicle work!

[Ed Storey]

Thanks Tom for your well articulated response to my comments. As a current serving member of the Canadian Forces, your ability to formulate a proper reply to my comments without resorting to 'mud slinging' just reinforces my feelings about your total unsuitability to correctly and respectfully represent my military at public events.

[Scott Bentley]

Wow... This really went down hill.

I've never been a fan of people dressing up regardless... But i'm normally a live and let live kind of guy. From what i've seen in the US, this is a very normal past time.

Having said that, I feel Tom is getting an unfair shake here. The vehicle he chose to restore just so happens to be from a period that wore the current CF uniform. At the rate we update our uniforms, it will be many years before CADPAT is no longer current, so this really opens a big can of worms for many years down the road. People were wearing OG107 Combats at shows long before those went out of the system.... I've seen it with my own eyes, so this isn't a new thing wearing "current" issue uniforms.

I think the reason he is getting the unfair shake is over the nit-picking of the details of his dress, and wether he should be allowed to wear it at all. All I can say here is that i've seen many many Canadians at shows depicting the CF, and doing a FAR worse job than Tom, and I never saw anyone attacking them over it. Thats where this issue bothers me. People should be eating some Crow here.

The last show I attended in Oshawa, I watched people walking around in Nazi uniforms... How people can attack someone for wearing a current uniform, yet allow that at a show is beyond my level comprehension. Thankfully, there were no former/serving Nazi's around to criticize them about wether their Jackboots and Schmissers were correct.

Tom, I am proud to see a US Citizen taking the time to restore a Canadian Vehicle, and going to the lengths you have gone to in order to get the most correct equipment you can find. The Uniform bit is your choice, and I will not comment about its correctness, as that will require me have to correct anyone else I see at a show who has some mistakes. Besides, I am no longer a Warrant Officer and have better things to do now (OPMEs ) than look at boots and haircuts

Ed, i've got alot of respect for you and the work that you have done, but the CF is "our" (Canada's) military and not yours, and your opinion doesn't speak for me or any other serving member of the CF. Just want to make sure the Arcs of Fire are clear here, none of us a PAFFOs.

Lastly, I promise never to engage in these posts, but in this case I couldn't stop myself.

[Ed Storey]

Scotty, for sure my opinions are those of my own and do not reflect those of the CF.

I certainly agree that there are individuals who do a far worse job than Tom in their depictions of past and present CF uniforms (many of them Canadian) and I don't doubt his intentions are genuine, I am though concerned that his knowledge of the CF may be limited and portrayal of the military may not be accurate. I do though like the work he has done on his Iltis and I am pleased to see that he has restored one to running condition, but as I said earlier, I have doubts on his dress-up presentation.

I wrote earlier that it is the cavalier attitude towards wearing a Canadian uniform that I find distasteful. Going out and purchasing any Canadian 'crest' so that a neighbors son can ride on the Iltis seems to be a pretty big leap from showing honour to 'Northern Brothers' for fighting in the GWOT (his terminology not mine) to more like dressing up in a uniform that is cool and different from what is available locally and standing out in the crowd. Admittedly I have not seen Tom in person so I have no idea what he tells people about Canada's participation in the GWOT or any other conflict for that matter, or how the Cadet organization works, but if his reply to my criticisms is any indication of his ability to debate or defend himself then I have wonder how he handles himself in similar situations when dealing with the public.

Apparently none of us are PAFFOs, although I don't know that for sure, and we can all sit back and tacitly cast the blind eye of indifference to how enthusiasts dress up and portray the military; but at least speaking up and voicing an opinion may bring about a change.