17 Pounder anti tank gun

[Rod Bellars (RIP)]

well this is an impressive gun and one of my favourites , the 17pdr was the largest Commonwealth anti tank gun used in the field although two proto- type 32 pounders were made in uk and one still exists at Rotunda .

Australia realized the need for substantial and up to date anti tank weaponry during the war and sourced much of its supplies where it could and if not made them here as is well known most of the 2pdrs were made here ,almost half the 6pdr and amazingly all but three pilot models of the 17pdr ! according to Gower. An initial order of around 500 guns were made but it is estimated only 125 complete guns were made and rest was parts

From observations of guns in the collection and elsewhere again it is evident there were two basic models of locally produced guns . These are easily distinguished by the shield sight apperture holes .For some strange reason it appears the shields when made were cut out for sight appertures on right and leff of gun and the right one was simply covered up on assembly a strange practice I would like to know more about reasoning behind this .

The early production models had a riveted plate over the spare apperture hole on right and latter models had an almost invisible flush welded plate .
The guns were not well liked by their crews preffering the 6pdr as it was easier to handle and less likely to damage the trucks assigned for towing them, so many guns saw little practice use , the guns were last upgraded in 1955 which seems to be sight related upgrades and after being declared obsolete 12 accoring to Gower were kept on for coastal defence and its these 12 that adorn various parks and gardens today others all being scrapped earlier
In the 70s one fellow relayed to me as a kid in Plumb and Critons scrap yard they had sword fights with barrels on 17pdr guns!!!! in there for scrap .in the80s i can still remember going to that yard and recovering new recoil housings and other parts from the spares being scrapped then which have come in handy since i have four 17pdr three aussie made ones and parts of a Fourth Brithish gun .
one Aussie gun i have recently rebuild paying much attention again to preserving as much as possible in original paint and make it as complete as possible . results were good as this gun was pretty shot originally being probably salvaged from the scrap yard and when i got it was a skeleton missing all brass bushes even and grease nipples .after a total rebuild it is one of the few complete ones here and definetly probably only one in original ww2 period colours although I still need to polish the chamber

Again I am using this article to chase parts and i need for second and third guns elevator units ie both gear boxes and for third gun one traverse as well . I also need one recocking link that bolts to rear of breach block and may copy this off another I have along with that the third gun has had its trails trimmed and axles so these two are on a shopping list although I have had interest in thsi third gun from a number of people who may trade it off me to do up, saving me the effort

predominant differences between Aussie made guns and uk made guns are folowing
-uk used dished holed handwheels where aussies used standard heavy bronze steering wheel type four bar
-Uk shield had less fittings for stores and and a sight slot open to top of shield where Aussie one was enclosed with sight cover sliding door
-uk gun had a lot more rivets on it and especially in forming spades that were simpler welded models on Aussie guns Uk sight unit was also more complicated where Aussie one was simpler but made more use of bronze in its construction

all my three aussie guns and parts of others are dated 1943 and mk1

again i do have spares available for swap ie the thrid gun in bits about 75%, ammo tins , breach blocks , sight mounts ,recoil parts , etc

just an update dated 1/2011 I will be selling off one 17pdr with some stores shortly
regards
Rod

[rnixartillery]

Hi Rod

VERY impresive collection you have,I wish you were a bit nearer .
I was very lucky also to find a 17 pdr and have restored it over the past 10 years,finding parts for this gun in the UK is virtualy impossible but it is now almost complete.
It would be nice to find a few ammo boxes to display with the piece .
I am currenty restoring a Canadian 6 pdr and seems to be in similar condition to the one you have also missing the lower splinter plate which I am currently fabricating.


A few pics of my old girl !!!


Rob ...................rnixartillery.

[CWO (ret) Gilles Aubé]

Nice to see 17 PDR been rebuilded please keep sending update.
Were 17 PDR guns used for salute?
I mean using black powder salvo.

Gilles
UBIQUE

[servicepub (RIP)]

Service Publications put out this monograph on the 17pdr which may be of interest to some forumites;

[Clive_Dakers]

Originally Posted by rnixartillery

It would be nice to find a few ammo boxes to display with the piece .

OOooohhhh, nice. The box you want is the C238 A mkI. You don't see many about nowadays but the mk II's constantly turn up on Ebay. Don't pay more that a tenner though. The difference is internal, the mk I has some rails inside that are missing from the mk II. The stack under the cam net is the one you are after. (I have 110 )

[rnixartillery]

Originally Posted by Clive_Dakers

OOooohhhh, nice. The box you want is the C238 A mkI. You don't see many about nowadays but the mk II's constantly turn up on Ebay. Don't pay more that a tenner though. The difference is internal, the mk I has some rails inside that are missing from the mk II. The stack under the cam net is the one you are after. (I have 110 )

Clive ,
You have FAR too many of those ammo boxes,If you decide to cut down at any time I would be interested in a couple !!
I picked these up not so long ago but can't place them to a gun,does anyone know what they are for ?

Rob...................rnixartillery

[Rod Bellars (RIP)]

looks nice seems you have one Aussie handle and one English handle on your gun . The standard ammo tins issued with guns here are two round steel tin with water proof twin screw down steel lid and variant on the 3.7" aa gun ammo box with three lock down clips on lid and cardboad tubes same as in waterproof tin .
The boxes you have there look like six pounder four round tins but appear slightly larger wil try and post a few shots for you few original ww2 17pdr tins in the collection few survive survive today but if you are lucky one can turn them up and soem may even have original paint !!!
Gilles to my knowledge 17pdr are not used for salute as they are anti tank issue and that task was firmly taken by artillry of more standard types ie 18pdr then 25pdr now 105mm in most commonwealth armies .
The best gun of the three Aussie I have is fully functional once I polish the chamber and may see some use in future with State police permission of course for ceromonial display in the future when time allows , the second one is not far behind it if we can locale the elevator rear boxes and th ethird is a bit behind that



regards
Rod

[Rod Bellars (RIP)]

well I am slowly getting used to this and from the interest i will try and start threads on further guns in the collection . I have tried to answer comments in a timely manner but thisi may be limited by time issues .
anyway here are some shots of 17 pounder ammo and tins as well as a projectille box which is for storage on its own before loading into case
regards
Rod
tins are two round standard waterproof seal screw down lids with stencilling on side for type of round inside in this case super HE on floor is standard flat tin with cardboard tubes again for rounds

[Clive_Dakers]

Rod, is the box in the second image a C235? It was used for the 3.7" AA gun. It's still in service in the British Army today for necklace explosives.

[Rod Bellars (RIP)]

it is the second box but its different to 3.7'' they are longer and heavier construction than the 17pdr one
regards
Rod