Bedford QL ex-portees

[DaveCox]

When the Bedford portee was considered obsolete, and excess vehicles were converted to GS trucks, did they just change the body, or did they change the cab from the stripped down version to a standard full cab as well?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Dave, the Chevrolet C60L 6-pounder Portees with the # 43 Cab were rebuilt in 1943/4 to G/S trucks and retained the open cab with canvas top. It was the bodies that were changed. The same applied to to MCC A/Tank Portees and the Predictors converted to tractors. A similar job was done with the rebuilds on the # 42 Cab 2-pounder Chevrolet Portees that became 17-pdr tractors.

[DaveCox]

Thanks David, but I asked about BEDFORDS, ie the QL 6pdr portee.

These were also declared redundant. Would the same have applied though - change the body but leave the cab?

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

..but the point being made was that in all other cases known to me the cab was retained and it was the body that was changed. As to whom did the work...this would have been to M of Supply contract and I wonder if it was carried out by a contractor rather than by Luton...the MCC rebuilds were undertaken in Birmingham though by Morris Commercial Cars Limited the original builders.

[DaveCox]

David, thanks very much indeed , that was exactly the reply that I wanted to hear, as I have a very tired QL portee model in need of some refurbishment and will now change the body at the same time. I assume it would be the wood or steel body GS with lockers etc in the sides. I think I have drawings for this.

[Richard Farrant]

Dave,

Some years ago there was a QL ex-portee on the rally scene, it came from the Bedfordshire area. The cab was still soft top, will search for a photo.....if I can remember which album its in.

Richard

[DaveCox]

That'd be great Richard, many thanks.

[cliff]

Thanks for asking that Dave as now I too have a half built QL portee that I can change to a GS

[nuyt]

from Georgano, WW2 MV's transport and halftracks, page 28

Greetings
Nuyt

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

The photo has just corrected my listing! The 1944 B Census list shows that L 4916925 to 4917312 were to V.5121 as 'Lorry 3 ton 4 x4 G/S', with no reference to 6-pdr Portees. However the photo is very similar to an IWM one of a Chevrolet C60L Portee rebuild as a G/S. and the photo location looks the same!

I have had to decide whether Vauxhall Motors Limited or General Motors Limited at Bamber Bridge, Preston, did the work to a similar specification. However the location keeps reminding me of Hendon Aerodrome, which was of course an RAF base during the war and a short distance away from Vauxhall's section of the former GM Limited Hendon Plant which undertook considerable refurb work for the Ministry of Supply.

[DaveCox]

Thanks Nuyt & David. I now have a photo to work from and a list of census numbers - now all I have to do is build the truck!

[Mark W. Tonner]

Dave;

I came across this while I was looking for something else, don't know if it will help or not.

From a pub I have entitled British World War Two Military Transport, Light Utilities, Lorries, Heavy General Service Trucks:

"The K5 and the Bedford QL chassis were selected to form the basis of a portee vehicle to carry the 6-pounder Anti-Tank gun, and Canadian Military Pattern 3-tonners were also used for this purpose. In this form the cab tops were removed and replaced with lower canvas soft tops to enable the gun to fire forward over the cab whilst still in the vehicle. When the requirements for this type of vehicle ceased after the end of hostilities in North Africa, all these portees were converted back to General Service configuration. Standard wooden or metal GS bodies were fitted, but the soft top cabs were retained."

Attached picture is of an Austin K5 ex- Gun Portee converted to GS configuration, with soft-top cab.

Cheers

[DaveCox]

Thanks Mark.
Looking at the photos of the K5 & QL here I'm struck by several similarities. With the exception of the radiator area these two trucks have the same cab, the same rear body and are posed in the same place ( I think ), and photographed from the same angle.
Were all these rebuilds done in the same factory regardless of the maker of the vehicle?

[nuyt]

from Vanderveen, WW2 directory page 122
Bedford with canvas top in the Netherlands, september 1944. IWM B10243.
On p152, same book, Vanderveen shows the same picture as I posted above with the following caption:" Orignially built as AT 6-pdr Portee and Fire Truck".

greetings
Nuyt

PS would your drawing above represent the K5 version and not QL?

[DaveCox]

Thanks again for the pic. now I have a formation sign for my model, just can't see a unit marking, bit blurred in the pic though.
The drawing was sent to me as a QL, but now you mention it........

[nuyt]

It's difficult to get a sharper picture.
On the full picture there are two jeeps with a lot of signs to the bumpers and some people standing around. More, a tankdestroyer (M10 or Achilles-gun not visible) and a light truck. In the background there might just be a SP Bofors vehicle, a trailer and another truck.

Judging from the soil, vegetation and month this is very likely the southern Netherlands (South of the rivers/bridges, Brabant province). The spearhead to Eindhoven/Nijmegen/Arnhem during Market Garden?

Cheers
Nuyt

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by DaveCox
Thanks again for the pic. now I have a formation sign for my model, just can't see a unit marking, bit blurred in the pic though.
The drawing was sent to me as a QL, but now you mention it........

Dave, the fmn sign on the QL looks like the bull of 11th Armd Div, can't tell for sure though. I have the history of the Div, I'll take a look.

Cheers

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally posted by DaveCox
Thanks Mark.
Looking at the photos of the K5 & QL here I'm struck by several similarities. With the exception of the radiator area these two trucks have the same cab, the same rear body and are posed in the same place ( I think ), and photographed from the same angle.
Were all these rebuilds done in the same factory regardless of the maker of the vehicle?

Dave, it may be that these two vehicles were photographed in the same Ordnance vehicle park, after the re-build. In Gregg's book, a lot of the photos were taken in the same vehicle park(s).
That doesn't rule out that they may have been re-built at the same factory, considering that the re-build would have been a sort of standard kit, with either the steel or wooden GS bodies being used (something like the vehicle modification kits of today maybe). Whether it was an Austin K5 or Bedford QL, I really don't see what difference it would make in relation to the installation of the GS body. Anyways, those are my thoughts, I may be wrong.

Cheers

[Attilio]

Have you any informations about the units that used the AT 6 pdr portee in North Afrika?

THANKS
ATTILIO

[Richard Farrant]

Originally posted by DaveCox
Looking at the photos of the K5 & QL here I'm struck by several similarities. With the exception of the radiator area these two trucks have the same cab, the same rear body and are posed in the same place ( I think ), and photographed from the same angle.
Were all these rebuilds done in the same factory regardless of the maker of the vehicle?

Dave,
The QL and K5 cabs are different. Take a look at the QL and you will see it is just a full cab with top removed, the half door is more simplified, by not having the horizontal pressing above the door handle. A quick way of recognising them apart from the radiator, is the QL has a sloping front panel and the K5 is upright.

The markings of "Mary", the QL in the pic from Bart's book is 53 on a red background, denoting the 2nd Fife and Forfar Yeomanry, using info gleaned from Jean Bouchery's book, The British Soldier, Vol.2.

Richard

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I forgot that I had this shot of the original C60L Chevrolt 6-pounder Gun Tractor that looks a lot different from the rebuilt G/S version!

Enjoy!

[Rich Payne]

This seems to be the Portee and Fire to GS Conversion thread so I hope these Austin K5 pictures belong here. They show the stick arrangement under the tilt and the flash guard above the rad quite well.

The photos are actually just post-war and were taken by my Dad but he can't remember precisely when and where (The background could be the stadium at Nurnberg).



It could be that the Austin was with 11 Air Formation Signals but it might just have been a convenient backdrop.

Rich

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

I like it when threads are resuscitated and we can add more as a result of new information!

1. We now know that the Chevrolet 2-pdr Portees were:
a) rebuilt as 17-pounder tractors
b) rebuilt as 30-cwt? G/S lorries
both by end 1943, by whom I have no idea yet but possibly GM Ltd Cleckheaton or Bamber Bridge, nr Preston, with shipments back from the North African theatre
c) sold to the Australian Government and New Zealand Government direct from N Africa*
d) obsolete trucks donated or sold to the NZG along with MCC Portees, then rebuilt into G/S or remained as built?

2. The Morris-Commercial 2-pdr Portees were:
a) rebuilt as 17-pdr tractors
b) rebuilt as airportable tractors
c) conjecting rebuilt as G/S lorries?
by Morris Commercial Cars Ltd in Adderley Park, Birmingham by late 1943 under Ministry of Supply contract. I have seen drawings confirming, with originals held at the Parachute Regiment Museum

3. Chevrolet C60L 6-pounder Portees:
rebuilt as 3-ton G/S lorries only? Probably by GM Ltd

4. Bedford QL 6-pounder Portees:
rebuilt as 3-ton G/S lorries only? Possibly by Vauxhall Motors Ltd at Dunstable; the same building that assembled the Churchills.

I should like to get this list confirmed once-and-for-all in due course, and perhaps any other similar rebuilds can be added? I would imagine that Austin Motors Ltd did any K5 rebuild work at Longbridge but it is equally possible that Pearsons of Liverpool could have done so. They rebuilt war-weary K2/Y ambulances for further service.

[Les Freathy]

Photo of the other side of the first one shown
cheers
Les

[ted angus]

Originally Posted by David_Hayward

I like it when threads are resuscitated and we can add more as a result of new information!

1. We now know that the Chevrolet 2-pdr Portees were:
a) rebuilt as 17-pounder tractors
b) rebuilt as 30-cwt? G/S lorries
both by end 1943, by whom I have no idea yet but possibly GM Ltd Cleckheaton or Bamber Bridge, nr Preston, with shipments back from the North African theatre
c) sold to the Australian Government and New Zealand Government direct from N Africa*
d) obsolete trucks donated or sold to the NZG along with MCC Portees, then rebuilt into G/S or remained as built?

2. The Morris-Commercial 2-pdr Portees were:
a) rebuilt as 17-pdr tractors
b) rebuilt as airportable tractors
c) conjecting rebuilt as G/S lorries?
by Morris Commercial Cars Ltd in Adderley Park, Birmingham by late 1943 under Ministry of Supply contract. I have seen drawings confirming, with originals held at the Parachute Regiment Museum

3. Chevrolet C60L 6-pounder Portees:
rebuilt as 3-ton G/S lorries only? Probably by GM Ltd

4. Bedford QL 6-pounder Portees:
rebuilt as 3-ton G/S lorries only? Possibly by Vauxhall Motors Ltd at Dunstable; the same building that assembled the Churchills.

I should like to get this list confirmed once-and-for-all in due course, and perhaps any other similar rebuilds can be added? I would imagine that Austin Motors Ltd did any K5 rebuild work at Longbridge but it is equally possible that Pearsons of Liverpool could have done so. They rebuilt war-weary K2/Y ambulances for further service.

David , Vauxhall Motors didn't open the Bedford plant at Dunstable until the early 1950s, The same goes for Commer's The Dunstable plants opened in the early 1950s.
Until then all Vauxhall and Commer production was in Luton
Although I consider that there many fine engineering products from Luton I would list the first 3 as;
Commer/Karrier ( as my Dad spent most of his working life there). When he retired in the mid 1980s he still occassionally operated a collossal lathe he first operated in 1940 skimming parts for Humber armoured car turrets.

Vauxhall/Bedford because I used to sit for hours on the kerb and watch the trucks roll out; many just chassis with Kamakasi drivers with leather helmets and goggles.


and finally in third place TED Angus cos he's a good egg!!!!!!
regards TED

[ted angus]

Originally Posted by Mark W. Tonner

Dave, the fmn sign on the QL looks like the bull of 11th Armd Div, can't tell for sure though. I have the history of the Div, I'll take a look.

Cheers

Mark it is indeed the BULL the photo is IWM B 10243 but does not come up in the online collection.
TED

[David_Hayward (RIP)]

Hi Ted, here's the definitive answer:

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...d=1#post103643

I have written in ROADSCENE magazine about the Commper PA series, and at some stage I have to tackle the BF story. I have access to a fine collection of wartime Vauxhall Luton assembly photos for use in the magazine. Taken around 1941 I think, and one or two are external showing lines of trucks awaiting drive-off.