M38a1cdn

[chris vickery]

Scotty, like I mentioned before, the former owner isn't available to give me a history on this post surplus so I can only assume some artistic license was taken on the markings for whatever reason.

It was licensed on the road for the past 20+ years so it must have had some sort of serial numbers at the time it was registered by the Ministry of Transportation Ontario. Of course it is an assumption but having a correct CFR number which just so happens to match a real VIN on the database leads me to believe that it is correct unless the former owner was a stickler for correctness or a real mv buff like the rest of us and pulled up a matched set. Not likely.

Considering that the other markings seem to be bogus, I think that the old owner had made it up as he wanted it, either he was a former CF member or just picked some marking out of thin air. As far as I can ascertain he just liked old stuff and this was his cottage jeep.

I will check with the MTO to see if they can tell me how long it has actually been registered in the system as it may shed light on things.

[chris vickery]

Heres a picture of the jeep

[chris vickery]

Another query Scotty as you seem versed in the CF system.
You have given me a holding unit history which is entered as 01 Jan 70 when this unit was entered into the system. Was this date an arbitrary date for all jeeps delivered under the CDN3 contract for the year 1970? My reason for asking is that 70-08669 would make it one of the first registered under the final contract. Are CFRs issued at random or sequentially upon delivery of vehicles from the manufacturer?

According to an older post by Rob Love for CFR number range, CDN3s started at 70-08500
Can you check other CFRs prior to mine to see if all units from 08500 to 08669 were entered as 01 Jan 70???

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by chris vickery

Another query Scotty as you seem versed in the CF system.
You have given me a holding unit history which is entered as 01 Jan 70 when this unit was entered into the system. Was this date an arbitrary date for all jeeps delivered under the CDN3 contract for the year 1970? My reason for asking is that 70-08669 would make it one of the first registered under the final contract. Are CFRs issued at random or sequentially upon delivery of vehicles from the manufacturer?

According to an older post by Rob Love for CFR number range, CDN3s started at 70-08500
Can you check other CFRs prior to mine to see if all units from 08500 to 08669 were entered as 01 Jan 70???

The Mfg Serial Numbers and CFRs are generally not perfectly sequential, but lower numbers usually have lower CFRs, save for the odd flier. The date that it entered service is usually the start of the contract number. I can go back and check to see where the CDN3s spilled over to 71. If memory serves me correct, the change to 71 was nearly dead in the middle of the CDN3 pack.

[rob love]

I am not certain looking at the photos of your jeep, but is there a patch over the holes that would mount the GPMG bracket? These should be just above and behind the slave receptacle recess.

Mind you, it is possible that the Jeep, even if it was with the Hussars, would not have received the GPMG arm. Not all recce unit's jeeps got it, just the ones that were providing that role. My old unit had it on all the M38A1s, but we also had M151A2s for the officers rovers, which did not get the mounts of course.

There was a large SMP fleet rotation back in the early 80s, but it was around 82/83 if I recall. We got some M38A1s in from Pet, and were astounded by the amount of patches and Bondo on the bodies. There were not always a lot of rhyme or reason for VMOs. Sometimes units had shrunk in size so they had more vehs on their charge than their entitlement. Other times, it seemed as though the vehicle managers were just throwing darts at a board.

25,000 miles was not unusual for a militia Jeep. Many of the ones that were disposed of around here were in the 30,000-45,000 mile range.

The late turn in date may reflect a low priority unit not receiving it's replacement Iltis until very late in the program. I did the PCC on a duece in late 1986, long after all the others had left. The losing unit did not get a new truck, so they were intent on keeping the old one. Another example would be my old truck 88D, a 5/4 ton MRT. I watched it go down the road while standing on a parade here in Shilo in 1996, long after all the others had left service. At that point, it had reached 20 years of service.

[chris vickery]

Greetings Rob

I really really appreciate the help here. Yes there is a patch on the area where you indicate a gpmg mount would have been although without removing it it is hard to say if this is indeed the case.

Do you have any gpmg mounts or access to any, if so let me know as I WILL TAKE ONE!!!

My reason for asking the many questions re the CFRs, VINs etc is that I will get a replica data plate set and will require the proper numbers and way they were formatted to get stamped on the plates. Does anyone have a set with a picture so I can seee what they look like?

Currently this unit show 34,000miles give or take. Rob, are those tires milspec issue or a civvy aftermarket set? I am arguing with a guy who say they are but I say they aren't..

[rob love]

If you look inside the tub, you should be able to see the holes. There were 5 or 6 if I recall, and they were a fair size.

There are still some GPMG arms at the local scrap yard, but it is getting near the end. There might be one full set left. At a minimum the arms are still there, and I recall one base missing it's pin portion. It will have to wait until spring though....Winter in S. Ontario is not the same as winter in Manitoba. Your worst day is one of our better days.

There are a lot of the wirecutter bars out there, but postage will cost more than the bars.

I have a spare data plate set out in the shed, but I can't remember if it is Cdn2 or Cdn 3. I'll let you know next time I get to the shed.

The tires are definitely civvy aftermarket. The odd jeep had the civvy tires but they were a local purchase item, and local purchase was not something freely done back then. The standard issue non-directional tires were nicknamed "suicide tires", because if the road was icy, they had no traction whatsoever, and doing unscheduled 360 spins was not uncommon.

Of the 30 or 40 Cdn2 and Cdn3 jeeps in this district, I only recall the one at Kenora as having the civilian tires.

[rob love]

Originally Posted by chris vickery

My reason for asking the many questions re the CFRs, VINs etc is that I will get a replica data plate set and will require the proper numbers and way they were formatted to get stamped on the plates. Does anyone have a set with a picture so I can seee what they look like?

Here is a shot of my Cdn 3 data plate. Note the contract number is stamped on, compared to a Cdn2 which had it as part of the data plate. Note also that my contract number differs from Dave's Cdn3 below. According to the service pub pam on the Cdn Jeeps, there were 2 different contracts for the Cdn3, so you will have to rationalize your serial number to figure out which contract your jeep was purchased on.