Aussie Sentinel tanks

[Ryan]

Hi all,
As a follow on to Phoenix's thread on Aussie Vickers tanks http://www.mapleleafup.org/forums/sh...ad.php?t=11489 which has been great I'd like to start one on Australia's Sentinel tanks produced in 1942-3.
Much is already written on the development and production of them but what do we know of their survival post war.
How many and where do they still exist?
Go into as much detail as you please. The more the merrier.

I'll start off by what I (think I) know off the top of my head.

Bovington has an AC1
AWM has/had an AC3 (?)
Pucka tank museum has an AC1
John Belfield had an AC1, a hybrid (?) AC3 and an AC1 hull. These of course were sold in 2006. The buyers and where-abouts since I do not know of.

I would really like to know more. Much more.

[Keith Webb]

Some stuff on this MLU thread.

[lynx42]

Good luck with your quest, Ryan. I have a bit of 2nd hand info for you.

I was up at Walhalla Vic. on the weekend of 28th and 29th June 2008,
was talking to the owner of a veteran car who recounted this story.

His father, in 1946/47 (?) went to Bandiana for an auction. He placed a sealed bid for Ninety pounds for 1 Sentinel tank. His bid was rejected, but he was advised that if he increased his bid to 100 pounds, then he would be successful. This he did and he chose his tank. From Melbourne they took a Diamond T tray truck loaded with fuel to Bandiana and then drove the tank back to Melbourne. There were many problems both before starting home and along the way. One of the 3 Cadillac engines was US but they fitted another. The turrent was removed at the family farm at ?? Upper Beaconsfield?? and the tank used around the property.

Eventually the tank was donated to the Pucka Armoured Museum.

Not long after picking up this tank, the chap was contacted by Army Disposals who wanted to know when he was picking up the other tanks that he had purchased. Seems his 100pounds was for the line of tanks. 3 or 4 Sentinels. He went into panic and off loaded them to someone else as he only wanted one.

I will look up the name of the chap I was talking to, it is out at our new house and you can contact him for the full story. This is just a precis of his story.
regards Rick

[lynx42]

Ryan, have sent you a PM with all the contact details. Rick

[Keith Webb]

What a great story, Rick

Sort of thing I'd love to record!

[lynx42]

PM on the way to you too. Rick

[Ryan]

Thank you Rick,
I'll be following that lead. All I can say is wow, 3-4 Sentinels for 100 pounds. There has to be Sentinels or their remains out there still to see the light.
Of 66 made we only know of 6 remaining? Surely not.
AC Sentinels are pretty under-rated I believe.
Thanks too Keith,
Your work previously has been great.

[Ian Fawbert]

Hi Ryan,

I wont divulge much, but thought i would let you know there is a guy up here who has one. I cant remember what type, but it is definitely a sentinel. Infact i think he might have 2, but i`m not sure. From memory he said it is fairly complete, not running and less turret (for a change)!

I wont give any details as he is a quiet guy who stays at the back of the scene, but i`m sure he wont mind me sharing the little bit i gave on what he has.


Cheers,
Ian.

[Ryan]

Thanks Ian, that's terrific news.
If your friend wishes to stay in the shadows that's fine. Could you twist his arm for some serial numbers though?

Surfing the web I've come across this:
Pucka AC1 is serial 8030
Bovington AC1 is serial 8049
AWM AC3 is serial 8066

Did anyone get the serial numbers of the ex-John Belfield Sentinels back in 06?
The bare hull was possibly prototype E2.

And here is a great Sentinel info link:http://www.mheaust.com.au/Aust/Resea...sentinelmk.htm

[Rob Dyba]

I am not fussy on any particular model, find me one & I will make it go, and everyone can come for a ride..........

Rob

[Ryan]

Okay, speaking to Tony Smith it has come to light that the AWM has infact 2 Sentinels, an AC1 and an AC3.
So now we known of eight and possibly nine Sentinels that still exist.

[Ian Fawbert]

Hi Ryan,

I dont see him very often, but when ever i see him next time, i`ll see what i can find out if he'll agree to it!

Cheers,
Ian.

[Mike Kelly]

Bit of useless trivia . Years ago, I was looking at a wartime era movie , made here in Aust. It was depicting a desert battle, maybe Tobruk or something. Anyway, the tanks in some scenes were the Sentinals .. no doubt in my mind . I think Chips Rafferty was in the film .

Mike

[ron]

Where do I look for the serial numbers guys.
Ron

[Treadhead]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Bit of useless trivia . Years ago, I was looking at a wartime era movie , made here in Aust. It was depicting a desert battle, maybe Tobruk or something. Anyway, the tanks in some scenes were the Sentinals .. no doubt in my mind . I think Chips Rafferty was in the film .

Mike

That's got to be "The Rats of Tobruk" (1944)

It's a long time since I saw that movie, sure they weren't just Grants?

[Treadhead]

Originally Posted by rynoki

I'll start off by what I (think I) know off the top of my head.

Bovington has an AC1
AWM has/had an AC3 (?)
Pucka tank museum has an AC1
John Belfield had an AC1, a hybrid (?) AC3 and an AC1 hull. These of course were sold in 2006. The buyers and where-abouts since I do not know of.

I would really like to know more. Much more.

I spoke to John Belfield yesterday, Jacques Littlefield bought 1, 1 went to a collector in QLD & John retains the AC1 Hull, Who got the other models, I can't remember.

[Ryan]

Interesting picture showing a partially completed Sentinel with a large group of LP2A carriers. You'll have to scroll down a bit through a bunch of oversized text to get to it.
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/NSW-RAILWAYS-...3286.m20.l1116

Regards.

[sapper740]

Question for our Aussie compatriots: While perusing pictures for sale on ebay I came across a picture of what appears to be an Australian Sentinel tank mounting the 17pdr. A quick trip to Wikipedia tells me that only a few had that gun mounted, so this might be a rare picture of the tank. Derek.

[Ryan]

That's a pretty common pic found across many websites.
It may be originally a AWM photo so I don't know how authentic the ad may be. A copy perhaps.

[easo]

Originally Posted by Mike Kelly

Bit of useless trivia . Years ago, I was looking at a wartime era movie , made here in Aust. It was depicting a desert battle, maybe Tobruk or something. Anyway, the tanks in some scenes were the Sentinals .. no doubt in my mind . I think Chips Rafferty was in the film .

Mike

Yes they were Sentinals, the Sentinals were a technical advancement for their time as they were the first production tank to use both cast hull and turret together.

Here are some recent photos of the AC1 at Puckapunyal.






Regards Easo

[Ryan]

Thanks for the pics Easo.
It's a shame the project was abandoned in 1943 when it was just really gearing up for AC3 and AC4 production. Even new tank shops were being readied at Ford Geelong. The 80+ AC3 hulls that had been cast I guess were then just scrapped.
In a different world Australia may have soldiered on into the 1950s with AC4's with 17pdrs instead of M3 Grants with 75mms.

[easo]

It is certainly a shame as it would have been a awsome tank in combat with the 17pdr.

This is the only shot I have of the Bovington tank I took a heap on my visit in 2008. But this is all I can find,



This week I'll get more detailed images.

Easo

[JackM]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Did anyone get the serial numbers of the ex-John Belfield Sentinels back in 06?
The bare hull was possibly prototype E2.

Ryan,

I've attached scans of the Melbourne Tank Museum's glossy brochure for the auction in Apr 06, showing both the AC1 and AC3. Couldn't see any mention of numbers, apart from the note on the AWM number 8066.

[Luke R]

G'day all
I was speaking to a young local bloke at the James swan clearing sale and he told me about the time he and james removed the turret off a sherman tank.
At the time I just thought he ment Lee/Grant or Stuart until he started to talk to me about the 3 v8 engines in it.
I didnt get the young blokes name and had to get back to the auction.

Does anyone else know anything about it or was he feeding me bulls*@t

Luke

[Darrin Wright]

Many years ago James did have 1 or 2 Sentinals, they may have been bought from the Melb Tank Museum when John had his sale.
Where they went I am unsure.

[Ryan]

The 3 Sentinels at the 2006 auction as far as I have been able to find went as follows:
E1 hull stayed with John
AC1 went to the United States
AC3 went (?) to collector in QLD.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Ryan

The 3 Sentinels at the 2006 auction as far as I have been able to find went as follows:
E1 hull stayed with John
AC1 went to the United States
AC3 went (?) to collector in QLD.

Ryan,

I think AC1 went to the Jacques Littlefield collection in California.

[Ryan]

Originally Posted by Richard Farrant

Ryan,

I think AC1 went to the Jacques Littlefield collection in California.

Thanks Rich, I thought so.

Luke, you and me will just have to uncover some more with some thorough digging.

[Luke R]

Originally Posted by Ryan

Thanks Rich, I thought so.

Luke, you and me will just have to uncover some more with some thorough digging.

Well how many do we know still exist?

AC1 at pucka
AC1 at Bovington
AC1 at Littlefields ex John Belfield
E1 hull still with John Belfield

AC3 ex John Belfield did it go to the AWM?

Is there any other well known sentinels?

That still leaves over sixty unaccounted for.
The hunt is on.

Luke

[Ryan]

Have a look here luke, I've already started the hunt:

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=11517


Maybe a mod needs to merg these threads now.