Carrier Data plates

[derk derin]

Ralph just cleared up the issue of my BUILD date being in the MARCH 42 range of carriers.Rob are you sure your build date for carrier #3698 is 9-42 or 3-42.
Derk.

[rob love]

I think I see where the confusion is coming from on this carrier. I only have the data that Gordon Falk and I wrote down when we were salvaging stuff from the carriers. Gordon actually had the good sense to do this. I have the original scribblings somewhere on one of the old carrier postcards from the RCHA museum. I'll see if I can find it.

Anyway, what I suspect, looking at the typed out sheet, is that the -9-42 is missing the first digit before the -, which would have been the month. So the carrier could well be something earlier.

Derk: TL 382-X: I meant for the X to be some other digit on the end. It would appear that it could be within 20 of the hull number. So, for instance, TL3825 would be approximate to your engine number.

[rob love]

Here is the data from my serial number plate:
UCmk2*
serial 13295
hull 12290
engine TL-13380
CD1555 Jan 43

From the front armourC: CT163035 Jan 21 1943 13295

And from the division plate CB12290

[kevin powles]

Hi Robe, Can you post a picture of your data plate please as my carrier's CT number is 163057 which is 22 numbers away from yours.

cheers kevin.

[Ralph Volkert]

Oops I hope this doesnt show up twice.
Here is new rev of list.

Rob is that a 3" Mortar carrier?

[rob love]

Originally Posted by kevin powles

Hi Robe, Can you post a picture of your data plate please as my carrier's CT number is 163057 which is 22 numbers away from yours.

cheers kevin.

Here is a photo. If you need a better one, I can try again with some better lighting.

Ralph: I had no signs of it being a mortar carrier, but then again, despite it having been an ebay carrier represented as "all original", the upper armour was off a later carrier than the lower, and the entire back armour was a fake. I have only included the numbers relevant to the upper armour.

[Ralph Volkert]

There were 1,053 3" mortar Carriers made in 1943
(188 in 1942)

All your numbers put it in line with those.

That said who knows what happened since then. It has been said that that post war some were refitted to infantry use.

If you wanted you could justifiably kit it out that way.

LOL or not

[George McKenzie]

This is one set of mixed up numbers .and little information ,but if we can post enough numbers we can solve this thing our selves .Thanks for the info sofar . this is what I know

Lower hull number at the back This is not on your plate but can be the same as your serial number or close to it ( my MK11) is the same CB number behind the gunners head Is less than the lower Hull number about 100numbers or less
HULL number about 500 less than the CB number or 100 more than the lower hull number
SERIAL number on the top right end of the front armor .read from the front.
Can be same as the lower hull number or up to 1000 different more or less
ENGINE number TL xxxx - F any where form 3 to 2000 over the lower hull number
CD A number the GOVE used to order a groupe of carriers also shown as WD number
BUILD DATE If you have 7 numbers for you CT number the last number will give you the month .You will have to compare other carriers to get this info
CT number is like a license number Painted on the sides and stamped on the front armor up to 6 numbers ect: CT25848.4 the 4 is MAR year
Front armor reading from the front should look like this ( serial)# 1944 APR CT25743.4 Nigel Watsons book VOL 1 has WD numbers and contract numbers Hope this is clear as mud will give you a start for your numbers George

[kevin powles]

Robe, That was fast getting that picture, Have you got one which is a little clearer, reason being I want to send the guy making the plates a picture of it as it is the same contract number as mine.

My CT is 163057, Build date of 1943 has a 5 in front of it so MAY.

This is what i plan to put on it. my hull number is badly corroded but the first two didgits are clear.

Model UCMK-2*
SERIAL 14567 HULL 13382
ENGINE TL - 7087F
CD-1555 BUILT MAY 43

Just as a note two id's on here are :


CT 163013, hull 12289, serial 13204 (described as front armour number).

CT 163035, hull 12290, serial 13295

Thanks Kevin.

[Jordan Baker]

You guys are really messing me up using different names for the same thing.

So just so Im clear on this. Im only talking about the Mk1 style of data tags as pictured below.

For the data tag, when it says "serial" this refers to the number stamped on the front armour after the date?

When is says "hull" is this the upper hull # or the lower hull #?

[kevin powles]

Jordan, glad you through that question in there, I think the serial is as you have described, but upper or lower hull number?, now i am confused. hope these help from the ford manual.

[kevin powles]

Hi, Found this written by Nigel, looks like its the upper hull CB number to be put on the data plate.

I'm glad to help with input if required. I mentioned to Richie that I had started a Register of Carriers in 2003 but time prevented its advance. I have 25 carriers on record, some have changed hands since then so everything requires to be started again I think.

The important information and terminology should be that laid down at the time of production as this is how it was stamped on the armour and recorded on the plates and ledgers.
This is (according to UC-F1 Manual):
Stamped on top edge of front armour in front of driver.
L-R viewed from front
1. WD.No. Beginning with T or CT (Maybe others)
2. Horizontal Arrow pointing right if present is the Government Inspection Board of the UK and Canada approval of the assembly and stowage of the vehicle.
3. A numeral designating the month of the year the vehicle was produced.
4. The year the vehicle was produced eg 1942
5. Manufacturers Logo (I have only seen Ford script but no others!).
6. Next is the Vehicle Serial Number
7. Arrow Approval Mark signifying vehicle approved after field tests completed.

Stamped on the plate:
Model: For a MkI it is UC-1
Serial: Is the Vehicle Serial Number
Hull: Is the number stamped on the angle iron behind the commander's seat, sometimes referred to as the Upper Hull No. by us!
Engine: Engine Number assigned by manufacturer, stamped on the top of the clutch housing under the mounting bracket for the oil cooler regulator valve and the top of the cylinder block at the right edge of the valve chamber cover.
Order: This is the Order Number or Contract Number for the vehicle. Many vehicles will share this number if made under the same Contract.We also have the number stamped in the rear which we call the Lower Hull Number, this should be logged as well just in case we find a link between the two 'hull' numbers in the future.

There also needs to be some way of logging in oddities! Different numbers/letters in non-standard places on carriers, like the 47 on my edge armour!

Some other thoughts to run at the same time:
a. Original Lettering that has been found under paint.
b. A log of all wartime WD Nos and associated Carrier Types with photo ref: be it in a publication, on film, from collection, on ebay...anywhere. (mammoth job but what a great reference source!)

Geoff is there anyway you could incorporate a form that we can access from MLU and be able to send to whoever is going to collate the information? That way if the form is done accurately it would be a question of collecting/saving the forms.

If I can work out how to take a picture of a MS Publisher Document that is on my computer I will upload what I had done in 2003.

Good Christmas to you all, and keep on the tracks!

Nigel

[Jordan Baker]

Thanks Kevin

After I posted my last posting, I found those pages in the manual. Basically I now need to find a upper hull # and an engine # for my data tag.