Bombardier ILTIS

[rob love]

Marc
Your question about how many Iltis exist is an impossible one to answer. You could file a freedom of information request with DND to find out how many were sold publicly, as well as the fate of the remainder, then make an educated guess based on that. Alternatively, there may be ways to garner some of the info from various motor vehicle registration data banks, but even then you will not be able to count non registered ones. One thing that is cartain, you do not pass them everyday.

[Marc Montgomery]

I was sort of wondering what other -guesstimates- folks might have..
and thoughts on whether my various (and totally arbitrary) guesstimates to arrive at the final 300 guesstimate number, were totally off, slightly off or whatever.

Of the 2500 original, your impression (probably more reliable than mine) is that more than 1000 went on the civvie auction block.

--but some of those..at least at my auction, were not really restorable, but for parts.

I know that some are still in military livery, not because its easy, but because the purchaser -like me- wants to preserve them that way, but yes some folks not interested in the historical aspect leave them more or less as is while they beat around the rocks and trees with them.

But my guess is so far about 300 or so across Canada which for the moment are intended to remain or restored as military for their historical aspect. (ie by collectors) This is based on the number of "collectors" with a licensed preserved iltis that I know of who are sprinkled rather sparsely across Ont and Quebec, and the number with iltis i know about who have no interest in the historical aspect at all, and are busy modifying them and /or offroading.

so whaddya think 300 preserved/restored, running, licensed in the hands of collectors? is this high? low? why?

((BTW Rob your insight from your military and restoration experience is always extremely valued! and extremely helpful ! ))

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Mark

There is a way of looking up how many of any given make and model car truck is registered in the US I've seen hard copy printouts years ago, I suspect the same is true of Canada. I vaguely remember the report being put out by one automotive engineer society magazine.

Now the bigger question where to we find that data base online. There are several other vehicles it would be interesting to see how many are registered as on the road.

Any thoughts?

Cheers Phil

[Matthew Reid]

I would guess that there are 700 to 800 in road worthy condition across Canada and the U.S possibly more.
I have seen about 100 road worthy units for sale in just the last couple years.

There has to be a couple hundred in Alberta alone Plus they are being restored all the time. And some of the units were restored from ones that were basically just good for parts when sold off.
At this point and time I would say there are more road worthy units around than when they were auctioned off.
We also have to remember a few were sold off in the mid 90's. One of mine is a unit that was sold off in the mid 90's.

As for regisitered units I would guess 400 to 500 As my 2 road worthy units are currently not registered.

Matthew

[Marc Montgomery]

aha..but note: running, licensed and destined to remain historicallly military in the hands of collectors.. As Rob pointed out, some are still in military colours, but of those many are basically being used as bushwackers by people not interested in their military heritage..

There may indeed be 700 running at present, but how many are running, licensed and currently in the hands of collectors who will maintain them and their military heritage.

( note also Im only talking about Iltis in Canada)

[rob love]

Bushwhackers still count because they will still be available for military restoration later.

Note that I have made my feelings for the Iltis known before on this forum, so I would have to question why anyone would bother, other than as a remembrance of the decay that was allowed to happen to the readiness of the Cdn forces by the governing parties of the last half of the previous century. Remember that it was only 3 years ago we were selling off the leopards as cold war relics with no replacement. How many service guys sacrificed their lives while the procurement processes were rushed to provide the DND with actual fighting equipment. Even today the opposition still whines when contracts are let without bidding on sole sourced equipment.

Rant over.

[Scott Bentley]

Originally Posted by rob love

Bushwhackers still count because they will still be available for military restoration later.

Note that I have made my feelings for the Iltis known before on this forum, so I would have to question why anyone would bother, other than as a remembrance of the decay that was allowed to happen to the readiness of the Cdn forces by the governing parties of the last half of the previous century. Remember that it was only 3 years ago we were selling off the leopards as cold war relics with no replacement. How many service guys sacrificed their lives while the procurement processes were rushed to provide the DND with actual fighting equipment. Even today the opposition still whines when contracts are let without bidding on sole sourced equipment.

Rant over.

I had a Jeep buddy years ago who had a very nice CJ7. He went as far as to get a Personalized Licence Plate that said "NOTAYJ", because he didn't want his CJ to be confused as a YJ, which were considered inferior because of a bunch of reasons, as well as most memorably having Square rather than Round Headlights. The YJ was probably the 1/4 Ton Jeep's single longest step towards a departure from the WWII design.

I had someone give me an "Iltis" Circuit Breaker the other day thinking he was doing me a favour. I asked him what I needed the part for, and he replied, "Its for your Iltis"..... Unfortunately, I can't fit all of the letters "NOTANILTIS" on a Personalized Licence Plate.

For me, not unlike Rob, the Iltis and especially the LSVW, represent the "Rust-Out" "Bob Fowler" dark days of the CF. I know there is a huge following for the Iltis, and i'm sure the LSVW too when it finally/thankfully hits the market. But its not just because of when/where/who made it, how much was paid for it, etc etc... I drove these things many many miles as a Sapper during the 1990s. More than (arguably) most around here. Unfortunately they were not reliable, and in some cases this lack of reliability either, left me stranded, embarassed in front of Canadian Citizens or other NATO Forces, and in one particular incident, in danger. You never forget those situations. Maybe as "Single Owner" vehicles, carefully looked after, they will provide troublefree service. Who knows.

But to draw another parallel in a different dimension; I was a tad too young to serve when the M151A2 was in the system, but I climbed around on them as a Cadet, so the memory was burned in. It may have been/was/is a complete piece of crap for all I knew, but I wanted one. Since I was really never shamed by one, and even though they were cut up, away I went and started collecting them. I think this describes a good portion of the Iltis owners (wether young or old) out there. Then there are the occasional guys I run into who also served in them that start the conversation with "I always hated these things, but......."

Sorry guys, I gave the Iltis Circuit Breaker to the first Iltis owner I happened to run into

Scotty