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#1
22-03-11, 01:28
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aha..but note: running, licensed and destined to remain historicallly military in the hands of collectors.. As Rob pointed out, some are still in military colours, but of those many are basically being used as bushwackers by people not interested in their military heritage..
There may indeed be 700 running at present, but how many are running, licensed and currently in the hands of collectors who will maintain them and their military heritage. ( note also Im only talking about Iltis in Canada)
__________________
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips, Straining upon the start. The game's afoot! 
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#2
22-03-11, 16:43
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Bushwhackers still count because they will still be available for military restoration later.
Note that I have made my feelings for the Iltis known before on this forum, so I would have to question why anyone would bother, other than as a remembrance of the decay that was allowed to happen to the readiness of the Cdn forces by the governing parties of the last half of the previous century. Remember that it was only 3 years ago we were selling off the leopards as cold war relics with no replacement. How many service guys sacrificed their lives while the procurement processes were rushed to provide the DND with actual fighting equipment. Even today the opposition still whines when contracts are let without bidding on sole sourced equipment. Rant over.
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#3
22-03-11, 18:07
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Quote:
I had someone give me an "Iltis" Circuit Breaker the other day thinking he was doing me a favour. I asked him what I needed the part for, and he replied, "Its for your Iltis"..... Unfortunately, I can't fit all of the letters "NOTANILTIS" on a Personalized Licence Plate. For me, not unlike Rob, the Iltis and especially the LSVW, represent the "Rust-Out" "Bob Fowler" dark days of the CF. I know there is a huge following for the Iltis, and i'm sure the LSVW too when it finally/thankfully hits the market. But its not just because of when/where/who made it, how much was paid for it, etc etc... I drove these things many many miles as a Sapper during the 1990s. More than (arguably) most around here. Unfortunately they were not reliable, and in some cases this lack of reliability either, left me stranded, embarassed in front of Canadian Citizens or other NATO Forces, and in one particular incident, in danger. You never forget those situations. Maybe as "Single Owner" vehicles, carefully looked after, they will provide troublefree service. Who knows. But to draw another parallel in a different dimension; I was a tad too young to serve when the M151A2 was in the system, but I climbed around on them as a Cadet, so the memory was burned in. It may have been/was/is a complete piece of crap for all I knew, but I wanted one. Since I was really never shamed by one, and even though they were cut up, away I went and started collecting them. I think this describes a good portion of the Iltis owners (wether young or old) out there. Then there are the occasional guys I run into who also served in them that start the conversation with "I always hated these things, but......."  Sorry guys, I gave the Iltis Circuit Breaker to the first Iltis owner I happened to run into  Scotty
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#4
22-03-11, 18:46
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Hmm,
Rob your comments re the Leopards (and the tank force) are very well founded. Meanwhile as for Iltis, given what one can see on youtube, some of them look like they`re being treated very roughly..and I dont know about them being restored later.or even as much of a parts source... since the many iltis specific parts may be in short supply or simply non-existant in the perhaps not so distant future, especially if offroaders use up NOS and used parts to replace stuff they break As for the Iltis being a POS, I suppose one could say that about a lot of things, depending upon your particular point of view. Alhtough I like the look of the MUTT, and would love to have one, it was a bit dangerous initially. I personally saw one flip with two injuries at fairly low speed on the base at Lahr. I have also heard some ex CF say the Iltis was great cross country. In service how would the MUTT-or m-series for example compare to it x-c ? An interesting thing, when the m38a1 was being released- I dont seem to recall a lot of them attracting the offroad crowd (? -am I remembering correctly, and perhaps even less so MUTTs. so I wonder why the Iltis is so attractive to offroaders, esp given the bad rep it got in the general media I of course have no military experience with the iltis so cant comment on it in that regard. One thing I like for sure is the Iltis ability to keep up with today`s highway traffic, which was always a bit of a drawback with the older stuff. BTW-as an interesting point... ex CDS Rick Hillier owns a restored Iltis
__________________
I see you stand like greyhounds in the slips, Straining upon the start. The game's afoot!
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#5
22-03-11, 19:03
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Quote:
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#6
22-03-11, 20:28
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Marc,
At the end of the day, wether its good, bad or otherwise, if your happy with your Iltis, thats all that should matter. I poured my heart and soul into a MUTT with all of its design flaws and lacking real collector value as its "Cut". At the end of the day, its what I wanted to own. I wouldn't expect someone who rolled one, froze on winter Ex doing Radio Watch in one, or torched them in half wanting to run out and own one anymore than I would want an Iltis. It doesn't make it any less of an MV worthy of preserving. The fact that psuedo off-roaders are soaking them up doesn't really surprise me. Compared to a new Quad, they are still pretty cheap and fairly well equipped for some weekend warrior woods action. As you said, you can highway drive them home. They are still new enough that Engines and Driveline are holding up. Once these components start failing in quantity, they'll go to the same fate as many 38s, 38A1s and 151's did, rusting in fields and behind sheds. How they stack up to an M38, M38A1 or a 151A2 off-road really seems like a moot point really to me now. Most serious restorers or collectors aren't pushing them to their limits cross-country. Scotty
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#7
23-03-11, 02:11
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Having owned many M38 and M38A1s over the years, along with one Mutt for over a decade, I can say that hands down the M38 was the best, closely followed by the A1s. The 5:38 gearing made it great for hill climbing and rock crawling. The reason why I would suggest the M38 as the best despite it's it's lack of the 12hp increase of the A1 was it's flat hood gave unbelievable visibility when navigating difficult terrain. As well, it's shorter wheelbase meant less likelihood of getting hung up on barriers.
The M151A2s best quality was it's relatively modern engine and a decent highway speed, but these were not cross country attributes. It's weaknesses were those dozen U joints, a marginal gearbox, and overly simplistic design of the rear suspension hangers. It was not geared to hill climb. Over hood visibility was good; similar to an M38. The Iltis had great highway speed, and could push snow fairly well with it's capability to lock up the rear diff, but the low skidplate made sure you didn't go too far into the snow. In sand, even on level ground, they were pathetic. As to hill climbing, the only way you could do it was with extreme speed. Luckily, the rotor acted as a governor to prevent the engines from over revving once the vehicle became airborne. We actually had complaints from the RCRs that the engines would cut out when the trucks flew.
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