genuine or repro ??? That is the question !

[colin jones]

A replica is a replica because sometimes there just is'nt even a wreck left. But I repro'd my mortar carrier because of that. It may be a reproduction but it is still a mortar carrier. My number is after the last known production.
Colin.

[chris vickery]

Is it original if its made up of parts from 10 different vehicles??? Some would say yes, some no.
Is it a restored original if it has some repro parts on it?
What if I have to cut out some old sheet metal and weld in a patch with newly made 2011 Taiwanese steel???
Unfortunately today, the only mvs left in existance for restorers are the left over scrappers. It is a pleasure to see the enthusiasm some guys still have to ressurect such items, albeit with repro parts, salvage, scrap or what-have-you.
I often thought about this very question on my first truck; 1941 15cwt Ford 12cab. I rebuilt it from the ground up and almost made myself crazy trying to justify using new steel to rebuild the rusted out box (tray). The choice would have been real simple; either I rescued the truck and restored it for future generations to appreciate or let it go off to become a new Honda...

[Mike K]

I am more worried about restored vehicles that are offered for sale as being ex-military, when I know that particular car was never in the military . This is a vague area as we know that many civvy models were taken into army service . But when it comes down to individual cars... I mean you can drag out uncle Joe's 1940 chevy car and paint it army green and the buyer has no idea it was never a army car. Here , most of the surviving wartime era cars were actually owned by : taxi companies, doctors or other essential users who obtained a permit to buy the car. Almost nil, actual genuine military staff cars survived.

I know a case in point .. won't mention names of course.

[chris vickery]

Mike, I do agree whole-heartedly with you on this point. I was speaking tongue in cheek so to say, being a S**t disturber.
I have often seen the same scenario over this side of the pond. Typically I believe that the poor fellow often taken by this is the newbie collector or the guy who just wants an Army Jeep and who could really care less about provinance.
This is especially rampant in the old muscle car hobby in Canada and the US.
With the prices being commanded on old vehicles there is plenty of room for fakes and very lucrative business opportunity.
Personally, I have always photographed my restoration work through progression as well as kept detailed documentation and receipts for parts and services. At least in this way I can show a buyer to the best of my ability and honesty when, where, how and why things were done. It puts all the cards on the table.

[shaun]

Thanks for that research Alec, as the man has says to me in the past that is down to interpretation. but it still leaves the question is the end product a genuine vehicle or a reproduction (replica ).

Mike there seem to more and more 1940 civiy cars here in the UK being passed off as staff cars. i have a 1938 Morris 8 ser E civiy car, they were never supplied to the war department but i have a photo of one in REME coulours being used in the UK in 1941, its in brown and green cammo with the markings for the BEME (thats a REME officer in charge). now i could put mine in those colours but i would make it very clear as to its genuine civiy history.

Chris, i dont see a problem with replacing pannels or parts of pannels, using parts from other doner vehicles or repro parts but to remake the entire vehicle to me defeats the idea of "restoration" .

now as i have said earlier , i am not out to "pooh pooh" (good old British saying) anybodys hard work but is a Repro worth the same as a genuine vehicle. And at what point does does a restoration become a repro ? I have 2 wheels and a barrel for a 17 pdr, so can i make a genuine WW2 17 pdr ?

I feel the old story of the guy who had the same broom 35 years applies here, he only had to replace 3 handles and 8 heads in that time but it was the same broom.

"Targets up and hold, they will not fall when hit !"

[oztankboy]

Some time back I posted a similar question in our club forum and mainly refering to jeeps.

For instance I recently heard of a "WW2 jeep" up for sale. Fitted with a new Philipineo body and chassie! Some may argue but to me this is more a repro jeep than a "WW2 jeep". But the seller did not try and hide the point that it did infact have these repro parts... to his credit.
I guess its a bit like the issue in EU with the French jeeps being sold as "WW2 jeeps" too.

Dont get me wrong I am all for repro parts as in many cases it may be the only way to finish off a restoration. Be it not available or for cost or safety reasons. I had to get several repro parts when I was restoring my M3 Stuart tank. But I plan to replace the repro with original if or when they turn up and if I can afford them (crikies has tank parts gone through the roof!)

But for me I posed the question more to do when vehicles were being judged at a event. But thats a issue for the judges and if they can see through straight new pannels and shiney or drab paintwork...

Phil...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

This is a never ending discussion. Everyone should do what they think is right for their vehicle and themselves. As long as they are honest about what they did to the vehicle!

Personally I feel French archaeologist A.N. Didron drew up a great dictum in 1839:

“It is better to preserve than to repair, better to repair than to restore, better to restore than to reconstruct”

Just my EUR 0,02 worth. . .

Hanno

[RichardT10829]

I suppose in my situation i have to ask ? am i reconstructing or restoring ? that question goes to all those who have carriers with armou chopped out (most of us) I have retained everything that was there at the begining of the project and anything i have cut off has been put back into the carrier when during rebuild. but it still i have introduced new metal.....