genuine or repro ??? That is the question !

[oztankboy]

Some time back I posted a similar question in our club forum and mainly refering to jeeps.

For instance I recently heard of a "WW2 jeep" up for sale. Fitted with a new Philipineo body and chassie! Some may argue but to me this is more a repro jeep than a "WW2 jeep". But the seller did not try and hide the point that it did infact have these repro parts... to his credit.
I guess its a bit like the issue in EU with the French jeeps being sold as "WW2 jeeps" too.

Dont get me wrong I am all for repro parts as in many cases it may be the only way to finish off a restoration. Be it not available or for cost or safety reasons. I had to get several repro parts when I was restoring my M3 Stuart tank. But I plan to replace the repro with original if or when they turn up and if I can afford them (crikies has tank parts gone through the roof!)

But for me I posed the question more to do when vehicles were being judged at a event. But thats a issue for the judges and if they can see through straight new pannels and shiney or drab paintwork...

Phil...

[Hanno Spoelstra]

This is a never ending discussion. Everyone should do what they think is right for their vehicle and themselves. As long as they are honest about what they did to the vehicle!

Personally I feel French archaeologist A.N. Didron drew up a great dictum in 1839:

“It is better to preserve than to repair, better to repair than to restore, better to restore than to reconstruct”

Just my EUR 0,02 worth. . .

Hanno

[RichardT10829]

I suppose in my situation i have to ask ? am i reconstructing or restoring ? that question goes to all those who have carriers with armou chopped out (most of us) I have retained everything that was there at the begining of the project and anything i have cut off has been put back into the carrier when during rebuild. but it still i have introduced new metal.....

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

I suppose in my situation i have to ask ? am i reconstructing or restoring ? that question goes to all those who have carriers with armou chopped out (most of us) I have retained everything that was there at the begining of the project and anything i have cut off has been put back into the carrier when during rebuild. but it still i have introduced new metal.....

Adding new metal is reconstruction, re-using old parts is restoring.

H.

[RichardT10829]

never mind..... still at least everything from the track guards down, etc is original

[shaun]

richie at least you will be sitting with a lot of real carrier around you.

[ajmac]

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

never mind..... still at least everything from the track guards down, etc is original

You're just fine Richie, when is it to be rolled out? I hear Martyn has been trying to get you down to Lincoln for a day of hot riveting!

At work we have to follow international guidlines for export control to unfriendly countries - who happen to have oil - the interpritation of the rules (at least there are some) is quite open. We were only allowed 25% USA contant in parts to be exported to Iran and Libya (this was around 2003/4), however it didn't say how that 25% was to be judged. 25% by number of components, 25% by weight or 25% by value, even by choosing the best case we were still over the 25%, so the part in question was slipped into a chassis made in the UK and retained by a little stainless steel bar, thus it could be shipped as 'as a component' the 25% had not been exceeded. That little story must also be considered in the restoration field, if an 'originality criterion' was to be made law, how would it be worded? It would make a huge difference. A bare hull from a UC would be enough to give you a big chunk of the wight based criterion, change that to a 'component' based criterion and it would be just one small part. Obviously the government went through the same discussions when issuing the road going 'originality' requirements. It's mighty interesting.

I managed to dig out the old points system:
The vehicle must score eight or more points to retain the original registration mark.

The following values will be allocated to the major components used:

chassis or body shell (body and chassis as one unit - monocoque ie direct replacement from the manufacturer) (original or new) = 5 points
suspension = 2 points
axles = 2 points
transmission = 2 points
steering assembly = 2 points
engine = 1 point

I suppose the greyest of grey areas comes into play concerning the parts themselves....
If you have a T16 axle grafted onto the back of your regular UC then the 'none originality' is plain to see, however one from another carrier of the correct type would pass with flying colours and yet wouldn't be the original one fitted to your vehicle. Because of this grey, I expect the detail of the above regulations, say 'of the original type' or some such weasel words!

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by RichardT10829

never mind..... still at least everything from the track guards down, etc is original

Indeed, never mind, you are resurrecting a wreck into a driving piece of history. That is a big accomplishment! After 70 years or so, it is to be expected the vehicle you started with is not complete and parts had to be remanufactured. At least your carrier will have many more original parts than the average flying warbird with so-called "provenance" (only because they saved the ID plate from a wreck. . .)

I think it is important to differentiate between what road authorities requires for registration, versus what the collective collectorship deems appropriate. The former is written down in all sorts of legislation, the latter is often up to personal taste. I know people who replace original metal because it is "too pitted" and they prefer that "factory fresh" look.

H.

[eddy8men]

hey man if it's green and puts a smile on your face just go with it. we ain't professionals we're enthusiasts doing what we can.
the bottom line is this, all the complete original vehicles are long gone or in museums the only way to obtain original kit is often to take it from another vehicle which then renders that one less complete. don't get me wrong i'd love to find a wharehouse full to the rafters with carrier spares but that's not likely, just do the best that you can and try to enjoy it and just remember if it all gets too much and you lose interest in the hobby you could always buy a jeep

eddy