genuine or repro ??? That is the question !

[Lynn Eades]

No credit yet, until its done.

[ajmac]

Very true about what you post, there was a big discussion on HMVF concerning road registering tracked vehicles, the regulations were dug into in great detail and rather unfortunately it transpired that it wasn't possible to use any of the fxxxx (won't say which types) vehicles on the road because of there width! Plenty are already registered, so it all went quite after that
I suppose it all revolves around IF you want to run your vehicle on the public road or not, if you don't want to then it's ground pressure, width etc become academic in all honesty.

There have been quite a few posts pulled over the years on Various mv forums, each time they have been of projects undertaken by dealers / big collectors who presumably got uncomfortable about people showing how they were modifying post war vehicles to fit ww2 spec and how much of the armoured vehicle was 'new metal'. The only reason not to be honest about what you are doing is if you intend to hide the fact when you come to exhibit and subsequently sell the machine.

[singeager]

I guess restoration and sale of historic aircraft involves much higher bugets

so the aircraft guys are getting picky about what they are selling or purchacing. found this link which has some interesting definitions regarding Historic Preservation Terminology

http://tighar.org/Projects/Histpres/guide.html#R7

with values climbing how long untill someone buys something being sold as something that it could reasonably be proven not to be. And it all ends up in a huge court case?

[shaun]

Hi Singe, glad to see you have made it on here at last. that link says it all very clearly in my view. I insured the DAC for the road today, i will get the tax next week, points and plugs and then how do you fancy driving it back to mine ?

[singeager]

happy to drive the big daimler home on three conditions

1. we have modern intercom

2. you ajust the tappets, so they dont sound like the engine is about to explode

3 you swap the wheels for something with better rubber

[shaun]

all in hand Singe, just so this fits in with this thread i will fit the REPRO tyres.

[Nigel Watson]

My carrier was relatively complete except for side armour. These panels were hot riveted in Newcastle by Vickers (or their present company) when it was pulled off the hill in Northumberland when it started its travels! Having its armour replaced by the people who built carriers during the war, does that count as a restoration or repair? I also think that people who modify their carrier with other carrier parts/fittings etc. should be ok with it because boy did that happen a lot during the war to get these vehicles repaired and upgraded; provided it relates to the history of what was done.

For my part I think it is important that we all save these vehicles or parts of these vehicles, and as long as we are truthful to them and rebuild them as close to their history as we can then that gets my vote. As far as building one from scratch, providing it is accurate and passed off as a replica then ok. But anything short on the accurancy front, to me is doing the vehicle an injustice.

A while back I had discussions with several carrier owners about this very subject, but in particular the making of parts for carriers (they all made quality parts for their carriers). We pushed around the idea that maybe someone should introduce a letter stamp (I think "R" was mentioned) that would be prefixed to the CTL or TL number to show the part was a reproduction. It seemed a good idea until you had to decide from an official standpoint. We talked about approaching Ford for their say, and forming up a parts committee.......then it became silly and so difficult to form or run and we did nothing about it. What we did concede to was in 50 or 60 years when our vehicles are still about but we aren't, without some form of notation/official stamp then enthusiasts acquiring our vehicles may not have any clue as to their authenticity, or at least the parts accuracy etc. Maybe by then it won't matter in a changed world, it certainly wouldn't affect us..well maybe I would feel a track rolling over me!!! I'm glad I wrote the UC books now as well!!!

Nigel Watson

[martyn]

many of you prob already know i made a mk1 hull from new but when it was sold it was sold as a repo with original parts if the chap who owns it now regesters it as a 1941 thats up to him all i was doing was saving a carrier as the hull was too far gone.

if your open and honest about what you have whats it matter but the problem starts when you loose site of this and start to sell things for money or start to claim things are not what they are!

I am pleased with my carrier i know when people say how much is original or new and you say - NEW floor,frames,top armour, linkages,seats tanks, bulkhead,track guards ,wings , engine covers yep pritty much all the bits bar the lower hull dash and running gear but what is important to me and me alone is i have built it from the ground up and its mine! i bet you you carnt tell if you put it next to a so called original so my question is any vehicle out there a so called original !!!!

keep history alive whats it matter how you do it !

[martyn]

ran out of room for photos lol
it may not be 100% original but its dam close everything is made to origianl pattens and thats the best we can do, it looks like a carrier,sounds like a carrier, and drives like a carrier AND PUTS A BLOODY BIG SMILE ON MY FACE LIKE A CARRIER SHOULD !!!!

Anyone restoring a vehicle will at sum point use new parts just be honest everyone ive spoke to has said nothing bad about using or building new parts and i dont hide that fact hence taking photos of all my builds step by step also it makes me smile when i show them to people

[Lynn Eades]

I think it great! I am heading down a shorter similar track. Super Dave said "sorry"... Well so am I.... I wish things had been in better shape, but they're not., so we do what we can.
One thing about it, is you learn a lot about the machine. When they are this bad, there has to be some passion involved, and it isnt about the money (only the lack of it)
I have made some bits, and stamped them with original part numbers........Now that the moans have died away,I think some of the original bits were pretty rough, and the thing that is not original is that the repro parts are a neater finish. Our carriers wouldnt look right; because the welds are(might be)better looking, and the paint finish is far better.
The facts are that anyone coming into this game in the last few years is going to have to make stuff. There just isnt enough of the bits left. Sure you can find them.......after you've made the bit.
If you dont make the part, ten bob to a knob of goat sh-t, it isn't going to turn up until after you've died of old age.
The biggest problem is finding the details, because some of the details for my local pattern carrier, are not to be found anywhere. This is why I post so much.
(I keep a lot of images on my computer. If anyone wants something posted just ask)
I applaud guys like you and Ben and Alistair, because you guys are pretty brave starting where you have.

[RichardT10829]

Shaun...gimmie a ring mate you have fallen off the face of the planet it would seem

[singeager]

Im not building a Carrier but Im just about to finsh putting together a Dingo.

Went to the DVLA office to see what i need to do to get it registered in the UK and have been told that the law has now changed and it needs to be inspected by VOSA. this is to check how it complies with modern legal requirments! and is also sufficiently original to justify an age related plate!.

once it has been delivered tp VOSA and obtained an IVA certificate, it then needs to be delivered to the DVLA for there inspection

note i say delivered. this means trailered at my expence. And of course the inspectons are not cheap.

It looks as the authorities are wising up to the activities of kit car builders, classic car restorers and criminals intent on passing one car off as another.

see this link

http://www.direct.gov.uk/prod_consum.../dg_180218.pdf

the scheme come into force last year and get clobbered cause the carriers and cars are 'passenger vehicles'

for details of the IVA see here

http://www.dft.gov.uk/vosa/newsandev...ovalscheme.htm

and here

http://www.direct.gov.uk/en/Motoring...icle/DG_177879

Oh joy!

[Phil Waterman]

Had a similar problem a couple years ago trying to get my Patter 12 C60L registered, no data plate, no serial number, and no serial number on the engine.

New Hampshire has a similar issue with people miss using the titling system so now it takes notarized bill of sale (I included a picture of the truck on the bill of sale), and a previous registration or title. Lacking the previous registration or title for a truck that had not been on the road for forty years the fun starts.

You need a special blue form to repeat all the information that is already on the bill of sale plus it asks for the serial number and engine number.which you sign under penalty of law. Then you have to have an inspection station verify that there is in fact no serial number and or engine number, then you have to have a policeman or state trooper verify that the inspection was in deed correct and that there is no serial number and or engine number. Once you submit those two forms then you wait to have a special DMV inspector come to the vehicle and double check that the two previous guy were correct then if he doesn't find anything and he believes what you tell them about the trucks origin they will issue it with its own State of New Hampshire serial number. Fortunately as soon as the DMV inspector heard what the truck was he came right out to the house, turned out he is a Military Re-enactor. First question the guy asks when he walks in to the shop and sees the other two CMPs was how did you get those registered? Simple answer nobody asked any questions. His second question was where would the serial numbers be if the truck had any. I showed him the other two trucks that do have data plates.

Fun isn't it.

Cheers Phil