New Hampshire CMP Barn 2011- 2012 HUP Overhaul

[Phil Waterman]

Well I should have torn the engine down as soon as I took it out of the HUP, because I have a major problem a cracked head, (truck’s not mine) today I disassembled the head and discovered that the seat of the #3 cylinder is cracked. Number 3 cylinder is also the lowest compression at 95 lbs highest was 112 lbs so this one falls at 15% of the highest which would be questionable. So now I need to go looking for a new or already rebuilt head. I could use the 216 I took out of the C60S when I up engine to the 261 but I’d really rather keep the HUP as Original as possible which means overhauling the original engine and replacing the head.

Note the deposits on the intake valve this was found on all intake valves so the valve stems and valve guides have really been allowing oil to be suck in, what is a bit strange is how little smoke the engine was making.

Pictures below show the valves and the valve ports for cylinder # 3.

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Phil

After 65+ years your head would be cracked as well.....

I know I have some...... can't guarantee the condition but will inspect closely with my glass eye.....

Do you have a particular "cast" head number you are looking for.....??

I can take it across the border for shipping to keep cost down.... or meet you half way.

My experience with sludge in engines was far more spectacular. Sludge to me is a light greyish ash like residue that you could scrape off with a putty knife..... maybe the cold weather here made it worst..... but no amount of detergent oil could ever remove it.

On a late 56-57 390 Ford engine..... we tried to cleanup the sludge inside the valve covers and removed the pan to scrap out deposits..... we literally flushed the engine.... in the frame... with gasoline to remove all the sludge
... installed new gaskets on the pan and valve cover.... engine never ran properly again.... was ticking and slapping like crazy and smoked like crazy..... I think the sludge actually was keeping the engine from leaking so much......

Your engine in comparison is very clean for 65 years of straight weight oil.

Let me know if we can help you.

Bob

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Bob

Yes, I know for sure that my head is cracked but that's a different story.

But back to the truck, Thanks for the offer on the head I'll get back to you. Because I did some searching last night may have found a NOS head according to the old Maple Leaf master parts book which covers 1938-1951 the one I've found should interchange OK. I had forgotten to bring the head casting numbers to confirm things though. This morning I'll get my casting numbers and engine numbers and give them a call.

I was surprised by how clean the inside of the engine was, wonder if part of that is the positive crankcase ventilation and the oil bath breather for the crank case.

The gunk on the tops of the intake valves and the gunk in the intake ports does say that oil leakage around the valve stems was a problem for a long time.

Cheers Phil

[Alex Blair (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

Hi Bob

Yes, I know for sure that my head is cracked but that's a different story.

But back to the truck, Thanks for the offer on the head I'll get back to you. Because I did some searching last night may have found a NOS head according to the old Maple Leaf master parts book which covers 1938-1951 the one I've found should interchange OK. I had forgotten to bring the head casting numbers to confirm things though. This morning I'll get my casting numbers and engine numbers and give them a call.

I was surprised by how clean the inside of the engine was, wonder if part of that is the positive crankcase ventilation and the oil bath breather for the crank case.

The gunk on the tops of the intake valves and the gunk in the intake ports does say that oil leakage around the valve stems was a problem for a long time.

Cheers Phil

Phil..
I would be tempted to fire that head in the forge and weld up those cracks and re machine the seat..(At least get the machine shop to do it)
That crack does not go through to the water jacket and for the miles that you would put on the truck would last forever,..
With 95 PSI compression,you are close to good to go..

[ahleeds]

I would have to agree with Alex on heating that head up very hot then welding with your nickel/cast welding rod . then a very long cooling period.

I was also going to mention my experience of looking for low detergent 30wt engine oil last summer. Basicly it was impossible to find except what was labled commpressor oil or pressure washer oil. If it is labled HD30 wt then it was high detergent 30 wt . not heavy duty 30wt.

my 10 cents

Anthony

[Bob Carriere]

Around our area 10 or 20 or 30 non-detergent oil is readily available from farm tractor shops..... stock item for all the old tractor being used.... they claim it leaks less than the detergent stuff.

Phil no doubt that a good functioning PCV system would reduce a lot of deposits....also the fact that when you do run them they are very quickly at there proper operating temperature with the low gearing and tight engine compartment.

On repairing a crack and having it done by a competent machine shop..... I don't think Alex has priced the hourly rates they charge recently ($100 + -)..... Welding the crack, having the head pressure tested and magnafluxed and machining the valve area and installing a new valve seat...... may be cheaper to find another head ........ there is not much market demand for old 216 heads and full engines are usually less than $250...... shipping is the killer.

Offer still stands for parts.....

Bob

Bob C.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

Well I got lucky Obsolete Chevy Parts out of Nashville, Georgia http://www.obschevy.com/index.html had 24 NOS Heads in stock, now they have 23. Numbers say this should fit all 216 41-53 though it will need the later valves which is fine because I was going to replace the valves anyway.

I've had good luck finding odd parts from them in the past, they're the same out fit I got the main shaft for the transmission a couple of years ago, along with some other bits.

Thanks Bob and Alex- I thought about having the head welded and new seats machined in and I suspect with the other work the head would need any way like new valve guides and having the face as well as the intake and exhaust area ground to get good seals that a new head will be about the same cost or cheaper.

Will let you all know as soon as it comes in.

Cheers Phil

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

One of our moderators thought the topic of Welding deserved its own Thread so it has moved to http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ad.php?t=16503

So follow over there for thoughts on welding.

Cheers Phil

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

Well I ordered a new head on the 21st and it arrived on 29th. Picture below shows the thing leaning against the shop when I got home on Friday. Had all sorts of labels warning the UPS driver about the weight 71 lbs, use hand cart, lift with knees etc. Appears well packaged rapped in many layers of corrugated card board and wood. Only got through the first layers of cardboard still have to clean the cosmoline off it.

Then I'll load it the block, crank, cam and head in the car and haul it to the machine shop.

Cheers Phil

[cliff]

Hi Phil any more progress on this rebuild?