Richie's Mk1 Restoration

[ajmac]

Lets face it Rivets are so 19th century! Welding rules, british industry just wasn't forward thinking, the T16 showed the way and in the end the UC was welded too. From a restoration point of view rivets do offer an easier route, putting new armour on a welded carrier and having the welds look factory would be more difficult I imagine.

[shaun]

I believe im right in saying universal carriers were being weld at the same time as riveting production was going on - it was decided to keep riveting the majority of carrier production rather than welding as it would have created to much down time for retooling the factories.

Riveting can produce a far far tighter clamping affect for the size of rivet than bolts, hence there use on boilers, ships etc.

All of the above is "in my opinion" as some one will now blow my comments out of the water !

And boy do i wish the welded universals, the would be so much easier to rebuild !!!!!!!!!!

Richie so glad you are doing the rivets properly.

[RichardT10829]

Yeah i was thinking that today although a harder job....its worth while.... !

AJ (IMHO) welding would be a breeze in comparison to Riveting however it all depends on what you find easy and what you find hard i guess. If it had been a welding job i could have had the hull back together years ago.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by ajmac

Lets face it Rivets are so 19th century! Welding rules, british industry just wasn't forward thinking, the T16 showed the way and in the end the UC was welded too. From a restoration point of view rivets do offer an easier route, putting new armour on a welded carrier and having the welds look factory would be more difficult I imagine.

Rivets are superior to bolts, because they swell in the holes and stop any movement between the two parts, if bolted, to get the same rigidity, the holes would have to be reamed to fit the bolts. This was why chassis repairs on lorries, where a riveted spring hanger had to be changed, had to have the holes reamed for special bolts if hot riveting was not possible (I know, been there years ago).

[Lynn Eades]

The carriers must flex while travelling cross country. A carrier bolted together would never last as long, bolted. They would work loose at the joins unless each hole had been reamed as per Richards post.
Thats the structrual side.
Now for the asthetics. Rivets win by a country mile in every posible way. They are classic!!, with so much character!!!!. (Sorry you T16 guys) I have a welded hull AOP, which was the only carrier I could find, while hunting for a riveted one.
Riveted bridges were still being built in the 1960's (Auckland harbour Bridge, built by a Japanese company)
I just love riveted structures.

I use the same legal defence as Shaun. Its my opinion (everybody has one)

[horsa]

Rivets were a manufacturing method used all over Canada and the UK (and really everywhere else) during the war and was the fastest and easiest way to employ a large percentage of the available workforce to speed up production. The USA had started new techniques welding Liberty ships and was able to turn them out faster than when they had been riveting. The T-16 was produced after that time so was able to take advantage of it while automatically gaining a relatively water-tight hull for possible amphibious use.

I still also prefer the rivet look myself but alas, it wouldn't be correct for my carrier. Course the T-16 has a stronger hull whereas other models had the easy opening feature.

[Lynn Eades]

I would suggest the "easy opening feature" is not restricted to the riveted carriers

[shaun]

Gents i will ref to our conversations at the next party i attend , we are all true rivet counters ! Rivets rule !

[RichardT10829]

Originally Posted by horsa

Rivets were a manufacturing method used all over Canada and the UK (and really everywhere else) during the war and was the fastest and easiest way to employ a large percentage of the available workforce to speed up production. The USA had started new techniques welding Liberty ships and was able to turn them out faster than when they had been riveting. The T-16 was produced after that time so was able to take advantage of it while automatically gaining a relatively water-tight hull for possible amphibious use.

I still also prefer the rivet look myself but alas, it wouldn't be correct for my carrier. Course the T-16 has a stronger hull whereas other models had the easy opening feature.

I cant recall but i am sure this one was either hit by an 88 shell... or struck an anti tank mine... they all peel open one way or another lets face it with the size of round being fired at them the 10mm front plate was like having tracing paper as a shield...


well back to the grind stone... speaking of which my die grinder and roloc discs should be arriving today.... i cannot put off moving my big compressor any longer....the thing weighs a tonne like a mini sub ! need to go turn out a few snaps then harden them.... an engineer i know was saying to quench it in Brine rather than oil as it pulls the heat out faster..... that combined with heating the steel up until its glowing then roll it in carbon...then re heat and quench...

anyone else heard of this ?

[tankbarrell]

The ability of low grade steel to be hardened is related to its carbon content. Rolling it in carbon powder and reheating will case harden it. To harden throughout followed by tempering requires a steel with a higher carbon content than mild.

It will depend on what you make your snaps out of. I make mine from EN24T and do not harden further. All my rivetting is done hot and this works fine.

[Lynn Eades]

How would the EN24T compare to 4140 or 4340. Personally,I wouldnt waste time making one from mild steel.