Mystery Lynx

[Perry Kitson]

I think the point that is being overlooked here is that these same vehicles (M113's, M113 C&R, aka Lynx) are in the hands of private individuals and non govermental museums in the US now. Even the US government is not as stringent as ours when it comes to military vehicles in private hands.

Perry

[Gordon Yeo]

Quit right Perry, there is a M113 for sale on armyjeepsnet/armour site, at the very affordable price of 137,000 US$. Makes a FV432 or BPM-1 look affordable and no worries about spares, since all the scraped M113 parts are not for public consumption.

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Perry Kitson

I think the point that is being overlooked here is that these same vehicles (M113's, M113 C&R, aka Lynx) are in the hands of private individuals and non govermental museums in the US now. Even the US government is not as stringent as ours when it comes to military vehicles in private hands.
Perry

US vehicles in the US are a horse of different colour. The 113 family has been around since the early '60s, so some were bound to be "collected" well before ITAR and other unilateral treaties. The US is probably confident that its law enforcement and military might will keep the peace at home. It is another story abroad. So how do you reduce the risk of blasé foreign governments selling off US kit to US belligerents? Making proper disposal a mandatory requirement in all foreign military sales works well.

Not good news for those of us afflicted with the OD collector's bug, but a good management plan by our US brethren.

Now our Russian friends are less worried about this issue - I am sure you can find proof of that.

[Perry Kitson]

The point I am making is that I believe our government places EXTRA restrictions on these vehicles. There are a few US M60's in private hands in the UK, Leopard 1's in Germany, M548's for sale to the public in the US, exportable to Canada, (all in the last 6-8 years) but the Canadian government will not sell surplus 548's here. Virtually every European nation bound by ITAR regulations has sold "home grown" and in some cases foreign vehicles, to private collectors and dealers in their own countries. But Canada will not allow AVGP's into private hands, or for that matter MLVW's. Even spares for the M113 family, automotive and running gear, can be had from surplus dealers (SECO in Georgia). I can speak from experience that most of the trouble in acquiring armour, even our former enemies armour, is from the paranoid folks in Ottawa.

Perry

[RHClarke]

Originally Posted by Perry Kitson

The point I am making is that I believe our government places EXTRA restrictions on these vehicles. There are a few US M60's in private hands in the UK, Leopard 1's in Germany, M548's for sale to the public in the US, exportable to Canada, (all in the last 6-8 years) but the Canadian government will not sell surplus 548's here. Virtually every European nation bound by ITAR regulations has sold "home grown" and in some cases foreign vehicles, to private collectors and dealers in their own countries. But Canada will not allow AVGP's into private hands, or for that matter MLVW's. Even spares for the M113 family, automotive and running gear, can be had from surplus dealers (SECO in Georgia). I can speak from experience that most of the trouble in acquiring armour, even our former enemies armour, is from the paranoid folks in Ottawa.

Perry

Perry,

I agree with you. I was just laying out the policy as I know it, which I too agree is overly excessive. But what can we do about it? I suppose one could write one's MP and complain, but I think it will be as useful as p*ssing into the wind.

It would appear from this thread that if you really want a M548 or M113 and can legally import them from the states, then I guess the problem is solved. (But be careful, the paranoids are watching!)

[Casey B]

My MP is a Liberal and a usless one at that! Writting to him calling him or dropping by the office is an effort in frustration and wasted energy! yes pissing in the wind but at least you got to piss! heh heh.
Well maybe they will be melted down to be used for something other than beer cans?
I thought maybe because of Alcan up the coast but don't think so. More like to be sent to China as part of our so called trade agreements. We send, they take, send back, we pay!

[Harry Moon]

Originally Posted by Casey B

My MP is a Liberal and a usless one at that! Writting to him calling him or dropping by the office is an effort in frustration and wasted energy! yes pissing in the wind but at least you got to piss! heh heh.
Well maybe they will be melted down to be used for something other than beer cans?
I thought maybe because of Alcan up the coast but don't think so. More like to be sent to China as part of our so called trade agreements. We send, they take, send back, we pay!

Actually he is a dipper. Still useless.

[Casey B]

yes you are correct Harry! and yes he is still useless at that I stand corrected not a liberal but still a politician! heh heh

[Casey B]

I did a little looking at whom was the hauler for the intended scrap salvage man and it was a hauler hired in Montreal by Ottawa for the purpose of moving the vehicles to their new destination...along with hauling sheets of aluminum for Columbia remtec based out of Montreal as well as Vancouver BC.
makes one wonder how a hauler can haul for the government and along on the same trailer there are two separate shippments?
I would think the governmnet is paying to haul the extra sheets and the company is getting it for free?
I know this is off topic now as the thread has gone very political. being from the west the other side of the rockies we often get forgotten way out here.

On the museum question what about the other Museum...The AV Roe...the one that has to beg The Canadian public to vote yes on television to stay open...what is happening with that?
Any talk of amalgomation of the two?

Never having been to any of them as it is waaaaay across our vast country and costs less to fly to Europe than Toronto I am not able to find the extra cash to take in any of the museums that we seem to have.
Our little museum is strugling to saty a float right here in the now defunct Chilliwack former CFB base. The only thing keeping it alive are donations from people want ting to veiw it and volunteers that help out as I do. All the vehicles are privatley owned so the government can not regualte that...for now.