CWM visit

[jason meade]

So Ed do you suggest that we the museums that dont have indoor storage should be over looked in favor of the two or three museums in all of canada that do....A statment like that is crasy...This is the reason there is very little of these old vechs around, Most museums and true historians would rather have a weathered looking APC, than a picture of one in a long lost book.
As I have mentioned in the past If you dont like seeing stuff rot away then support your museums by helping out and not making snide remarks about there collections on public forums,I have been working for 15 years keeping our vech collection going with lit5tle to no support and even less pay (Minum Wage) but we do it to keep people like you and the others in pictures so books can be wrote 50 years later and have something beside black and white photos scamed out of public archives.

[Ganmain Tony]

Healthy debate fellahs... Im impressed...

From a bloke who is out in the sticks in NSW Australia. Id just be grateful to see anything, anywhere, regardless of its condition, as long as its undercover.

Just a tin roof would do.

Well....you did ask for peoples opinions from other Commonwealth countries.

[Ed Storey]

Jason, please reread my comments. I did not point any fingers at any one institution nor did my comments attack any one person. If you have issues with authors and the publication of books, perhaps you may wish to start another thread on the topic.

Since you have opened the box, I will state that many of the military bases across Canada are peppered with vehicles on public outdoor display. Many of these vehicles are now rare examples of their type and allowing them to deteriorate does little to preserve our automotive heritage. Outdoor display was/is the norm as the final resting place for surplus military vehicles; as was the policy at one time of painting every Allied vehicle semi-gloss olive drab and every axis vehicle grey.

What I am saying is that all museum artifacts need to be treated as equals. For instance, no-one would ever take a painting and use it as a doormat to the museum yet for some reason many people seem to think that leaving a military vehicle outside to the elements is an acceptable practice. My point, which you seemed to have missed, is that I am suggesting that museums take a hard look at this practice and find another way to store and preserve this material.

Rather than crying and complaining about working hours and pay and pointing at other people, why not take the reigns and attempt to move the display practices of the museum that you work for in a different direction? This is already being done in some locations, CFB Shilo comes to mind, and perhaps people like yourself, who are working hard to preserve our history can also effect change in their museum.

By properly saving the vehicle artefacts we will have preserved our automotive history for succeeding generations of Canadians to enjoy, appreciate and study; including those evil authors who apparently publish books on vehicles....

[Mike Cecil]

Gaddzooks! I'm now an 'evil author that publishes books on vehicles...'! Is that a select club I have joined unwittingly by ..... p**lishing??

Just joshing with ya, fellars...... I don't see much of a link between us 'evil authors' and displaying vehicles outside, but I have to say that even I have been guilty, in a museum environment, of offering up a 'sacrificial tank' for outside display. But this was on the basis that the museum had two more historically significant examples tucked away in storage. It wasn't a particulalry rare type, but the exercise did appease the ex-armoured corps persons who were giving the Director heaps about not having a publicly displayed tank in the grounds. So add another factor to the museum decision 'mix': external pressure groups, of which this is but one example of many.

As for outside display, I have to say that objects are estimated to deteriorate at least 15 times faster outdoors with no cover, than indoors away from sun, snow, wind and rain. Even a simple roof cuts down the rate of decay significantly.

So for objects that were, in good faith, placed outside many years ago, surely it is a matter of priority: work to move or place those at most risk (which includes its degree of rarity) under some form of cover. Of course, easy to say that sitting in front of the computer theorising, but for most museum collections, not an unreasonable aim or expense.

Mike C

[jason meade]

Ed I think you misread my reply too I am not complaining about my pay and hours, I do this because I enjoy what i do and being no money for museums we do this work for little to no credit. "My point, which you seemed to have missed, is that I am suggesting that museums take a hard look at this practice and find another way to store and preserve this material" With you being in the Military you would think you would know that military museums are at the whim of the local base commanders, some support most dont. But it takes many voices to extend a voice to Ottawa to get the point that over head cover is needed,are you willing to send a voice?

As for Going after authors and publishers, I really dont know where your coming from, What i said was "we do it to keep people like you and the others in pictures so books can be wrote 50 years later and have something beside black and white photos scamed out of public archives." You cant go back are retake photos 50 years later of a b/w photo, so with that said you can still go out and take a few photos of rusty vechs.
Lets not drag evil authors and publishers into this, That was not even close to what was being said.

[Mark W. Tonner]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Gaddzooks! I'm now an 'evil author that publishes books on vehicles...'! Is that a select club I have joined unwittingly by ..... p**lishing??

. . . don't feel bad Mike, I am one of those evil authors, who writes books on vehicles . . . and now, back to writing before my publisher catches me on this forum instead of working on my book . . .

[Mike Cecil]

Well, thanks, Mark, now I don't feel bad since I'm in such good company. Maybe we should ask MLU for a special sub-forum on military books, DVDs and book publishing: at least there will be four: you, Keith Webb, me and Clive L! Who else on MLU is in our elite little group of 'evil authors', I wonder?

I confess I don't have your previous book on the Churchill tank in CDN service, but I'm willing to trade a Profile or two .......

What's the current book on, or is that NTK until publication?

I have several of Clive's Service Publications: excellent stuff.

Regards

Mike C