MK I carrier seats

[Lynn Eades]

With all due respect, I would suggest that none of the seat bits in your first two, and the last, photos are carrier related. I can see where the bottom seat back mounts are in your hull. The base frame in the 3rd and 4th photos is correct.
It would be interesting to know what your seats are from.
If your seats were originally carrier bits, they would have part numbers on the bits.

[Michael R.]

Bobbie J started this thread when asking: Is any one out there making MK I carrier seat parts.

As for the seat cushion covers TL 7372 and seat back covers TL & CTL 12657-A as found on Canadian manufactured Universal Carrier variants (not Windsor Carrier):
These are seat cushion and backrest from the forward compartment for driver and gunner of the Canadian made MKI* & NO-2 series, and driver of the NO-2 MKII*. (not the NO-2 MKII* gunner seat back) The original material used as a guide for making copies have dates of 1942 on the seat cushion cover and 1943 on the seat back cover.



The seat back covers use seventeen lift-the-dot fasteners and five grommets to fasten the cover to the backboard. The 1944 edition of Illustrated Parts Catalogue FUC-03 has an error in the seat back image regards positioning of the lift-the-dot fasteners, in that the seat back appears upside down. No, it is not from OZ or NZ. As Kevin P points out: Canadian made Universal Carriers MKI* are usually found with four lift-the-dot fasteners postioned along the top and each side, with five on the bottom where the opening is for the padding. The rear panel below those five lower lift-the-dots is retained in place on the lift-the-dot stud through the use of five brass grommets. Chilwell shows the British made backrest pad has a different layout for the fasteners.



At least two methods of attaching the male portion of the lift-the-dot fastener "stud" on the 3/8 inch plywood back board are found. One uses a brass flat-head countersunk screw through the back of the mounting board into the bottom of the stud. You can see this style in the images from Jordan B. as posted by Lynn E. The other uses a captive threaded post (8-32) in the stud through the back board, retained by a nut.



The Canadian made back board and divisional wall mounting hardware is atypical of the examples found in the British Chilwell Illustrated Parts Catalogue. Canadian seat backs are adjustable for distance from the divisional wall through two methods, British first followed by Canadian replacements. The Canadian lower portion employs use of a left and right side captive adjustment lever rod fitted using two stand-offs on the divisional wall. There are two hooks attached to the mounting board that surround the adjustment lever rod.

The upper portion of the Canadian back board uses a single mounting plate, but can be found with both single position mounting plate bracket(s) C01UC 105802/03 and double position mounting plate bracket(s), TL 5061/62 fitted to the divisional wall. I surely do not know what the standard was: surviving examples suggest whatever was at hand when the vehicle was on the production line was fitted, then refitted as necessary in the field. What we have been refitting in our restorations may or may not reflect production, but in the end it works well enough.



The rounded edge on the forward seat cushion covers (TL7372) should not be confused with the square pads intended for the rear compartment passengers, when used as both rear seats and kneeling pads. Those pads are found as part number CTL 1355 A, with British cushions TL 12657, and Canadian cushions CTL 12657-A (replaced by four (4) part number variations), of which two variations are also used in the NO-2 MKII*, where four cushions are part of the E.I.S..

[Michael R.]

The original seat cushions and seat back cushions used an assortment of springs and horse-hair filled cloth pads. Although the horse-hair padding can be purchased, the price and performance when compared with modern fibre-form compressed polyester makes the use of horse hair less desirable. Jack I. has a fresh supply of horse hair, but for the rest of us I imagine the compressed polyester is good 'nuf.

When the cushions have additional padding, they take on a pleasing form and added level of creature comfort. Not that most of us are driving great distances or for extended times, but comfort all the same. The seat back on the left has half the amount of padding from that pictured to the right side. Too much padding pulls against the lift-the-dots fasteners somewhat, there is a happy medium at about 2"; I hope after a period of time the padding will settle in nicely. The horse hair padding does not hold a sharp 90 degree edge, so an original seat back will look very different from a new one if the new one is fitted with a 90 degree cut foam pad.

These seat covers were made with marine grade vinyl, stitched on an industrial sewing machine using 69 polyester thread and needle size 18 as appropriate for the material. The home use sewing machine simply does not work well with these components. The original seat bottom cushion cover has piping around top and bottom, with four black coloured brass snaps for access to the spring box and cushion pad. I did not use the original style combination of spring box and horse-hair filled cloth pad. The seat bottom cover as well as the seat back cover is filled with compressed polyester, which is made for exterior use as it is washable, mildew resistant, quick drying and odor free.

[Jim Burrill]

I have one NOS Wireless Operator's seat back cover and have seen other originals and they all look a shade or two lighter than what you have used, but, honestly, That is still pretty close!

Where did you get the fabric from? Can you post the contact infor? URL? phone number for the shop you got it from?

Thanks!!

[Michael R.]

Originally Posted by Jim Burrill

I have one NOS Wireless Operator's seat back cover and have seen other originals and they all look a shade or two lighter than what you have used, but, honestly, That is still pretty close!

Where did you get the fabric from? Can you post the contact infor? URL? phone number for the shop you got it from?

Thanks!!

PM sent with requested information. Tell the lurkers to join up and contribute.

If the colour (color) is darker than the seventy year old material we are comparing it with . . .yes, it is. Seventy years from now . . .

[kevin powles]

Hi, Very interesting stuff on carrier seat pads, when I made mine i Realised the horse hair went in the end with the five 'lift the dot' fastners, then I got thinking does the five go at the top or does the four 'lift the dots' go at the top?.

I have seen an original black and white carrier picture of a canadian carrier with four at the top, and original british mortar carrier with 5 at the top

kev.

[Michael R.]

The last seating cover for the Canadian MKI* Universal Carrier series. Ten lift-the-dot fasteners, three grommets at the cushion pad opening. This example is dated F.M.CO. 41, with part number TL 13173. There is a wood mounting base fitted on a metal mounting plate. The metal plate is fixed to the upper rear armour plate just to the inside of the signal pistol case if so stowed.

This seat back can be found in both the C01UC MKI* and the C21 UCM NO-2.

[Jim Burrill]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

With all due respect, I would suggest that none of the seat bits in your first two, and the last, photos are carrier related. I can see where the bottom seat back mounts are in your hull. The base frame in the 3rd and 4th photos is correct.
It would be interesting to know what your seats are from.
If your seats were originally carrier bits, they would have part numbers on the bits.

I thought they looked like US Half track seats! I am at work, but I will look tonight at the seats my fellow club member has in his White HT project.

[Michael R.]

The seat back, or "driver's and gunner's backrest" , mounts seventeen lift-the-dot fasteners. Each fastener has four components when using the threaded post style. Ideally you want a factory punch tool to prepare the material for fitting the female portion.

The male portion of the lift-the-dot can be found in at least two fastening styles. In the posted image you can see one style using the captive threaded post and nut, as well as another style using the flat head countersunk screw style mentioned earlier. The threaded post and nut style is on a 1942 dated board with a stenciled part number C01UC-105801B (see FUC-03 Page 272). The finish on the threaded stud is plated, i.e. it is not anodized like the two components of the top plate. Note the difference in the stud finish on the other board?


The square profile rear seat and kneeling pad, TL 12657/CTL 12657A/CTL 12657B is pictured. This seat pad has a horse-hair filled cushion only, no spring box as found in the driver and gunner seats. As such it is one-third the depth or thickness of the front seats. No wonder they are found double up, with one cushion on top of the other.


When you also compare the size of the backrest for the rear compartment passenger with the backrest used by the driver and gunner, it must have been miserable in the back. The rear backrest is "deeper" in that it measures 1-1/4 inch sides vs the seat backs at 3/4 inch. Beats ground pounding?



The brackets pictured are 1942 dated TL 5061 and TL 5062. They have the double positions for fitting the mounting plate. Unlike the single position bracket C01UC-105802-03 L.H. and R.H. that replaced depleted stock of TL 5061/5062.