New Hampshire CMP Barn 2011- 2012 HUP Overhaul

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Bob

Good points Bob, I'm trying to see if I'm over looking something simple and to line up my thinking before taking things apart again.

Your point about using the a drill to check the pressure and flow raises an interesting question what is the RPM of the distributor vs. RPM of the engine? I can not remember if it is one to one.

As to the max pressure you mention for the 261 same for my 261 and 235 they basically max out at 42 psi though they will go higher on cold start with cold oil. Once the engine oil is warm the bypass in the pump itself starts dumping. Now I will have to check a 216 pump to see if same pressure max.

Wonder if I should just change the oil, wonder if the combination of all the assembly lube or dilution. When I pulled the head to get a better alignment on the side gasket, I pumped several ounces of oil into each cylinder to prevent any coolant from getting into the sump. (see http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/H...12%20April.htm ) Because of how I drained and sucked the cooling system clean of coolant before removing the head there was no water in any of the cylinders when I pulled the head off. But I wonder if maybe I did dilute the oil with lighter oil?

Your idea of hitching the pump up to external source of oil with pan off to see if the crank or cam are dumping oil is a good one. Messy but good.

One of the reasons I wish the Hammond Barn was closer so I could just pop in and look at another 216 engine running with the valve cover off. But having said that I'll take the valve cover of the C60L after it is warm and see how much oil is coming through the bypass.

As to washing my hands afterwards I always wear the blue rubber gloves.


Appreciate your input.

[Bob Carriere]

But we would not be in this hobby if we wanted to keep clean.!!!!

Dizzy is driven by the camshaft gear and should run twice as fast as the engine crankshaft...... so a 3000 rpm drill is equivalent to 1500 RPM..... which is about mid range for the 216...more or less......

When I was priming my 261 with the drill and did not think that the pressure could get that high and did not bother installing hose clamps on the oil line to the external spin on oil filter..... big mistake,,,, the line came off....1/2 inch line .... and dumped half the crankcase oil on the floor before I could turn it off.

Yeah I wish you were closer and we could both get down and oily together.

One more reason for using a discarded CMP frame...... with the engine higher off the ground I could install a 5 gallon can below the engine with a light sheet metal trough wide nough to catch all the dripping oil and flow it into the 5 gal. can...... I would fit an extension rubber hose on the pick up from the pump where the screen fits....and clamp it so no air enters......

I would use the cheapest 10w30 bulk oil I could find.... and only use it for the test...... then I would recycle the oil in my wood furnace next Winter...!!!

...or you could just dump the oil you now have with possibly some dilution and fill it with fresh 20-50 racing oil...... and see how it behaves..... certainly worth the oil cost and effort at this stage......

You better get yourself the arm long rubber gloves used by vets... the short blue Nitryle ones will never suffice.... you will be going deep with this one.

If you are going to test out the C60 try using the same oil pressure gauge to eliminate any gauge error.

You are not about to get dry skin !!!!

Bob

[hrpearce]

Bob the camshaft runs at half the pace of the crank shaft in a four stroke engine.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

New Topic for a moment, with several HUP restorations going on around the world at this time. Thought I would mention a fitting problem related to the gas tank and the running boards, possible rub or wear problem.

The HUP family of vehicles like other CMPs mounts the gas tank on supports coming down and out from the frame. Originally there was a tar coated strip of fabric that went around the tanks to protect the tanks from wear from the support and the hold down straps. With the HUP family of vehicles the tank supports extend out to also support the running boards, that's the rub.

While finishing up on fitting the fenders and side tank protection plates I happened to notice that the under side of the gas tank was just in contact with the edge of the diamond plate running boards. All that was touching was the high points of the ribs on the diamond pattern. Fix is easy increase the amount of strap padding on the bottom of the tanks.

The contact was not great had not even scratched the paint on the tank but movement on the road my have caused problems. I mentioned this as once the side plates are bolted in place you can not even see the contact area.

I'll post pictures later today.

Cheers Phil

[Bob Carriere]

So if I am spinning the oil pump with a 3000 rpm drill...... allow for some 30% reduction for oil drag....... the oil pump is turning the equivalent of 4000+ engine speed.... am I correct...? that could explain my 42 pounds of oil pressure.

???????? Bob

[hrpearce]

Originally Posted by Bob Carriere

So if I am spinning the oil pump with a 3000 rpm drill...... allow for some 30% reduction for oil drag....... the oil pump is turning the equivalent of 4000+ engine speed.... am I correct...? that could explain my 42 pounds of oil pressure.

???????? Bob

Correct Bob you were probably between 4 and 5,000 engine revs depending on the torque of your drill.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi All

Well I took the process of checking the Oil Pressure and Flow to the next level. First I confirmed that the distributor shaft and hence the oil pump drive makes one revolution for each revolution of the crankshaft. Then I brought the engine up to operating temperature which is 170 F with ambient air temperature of 75-80F this is with a 180F thermostat.

I shot video of the engine oil flow in the valve gallery at various RPM levels. In the photos below you can see the differences. Then I changed the oil and did a new set of videos. Which is when I noticed what I think is the problem excessive oil flow from the rocker arms. The shafts are new but the individual rockers are the originals.

It was looking at the video and stopping it and going back and forth that really clued me into what it the problem of. Take a look at the Video http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/R...stem%20DSL.wmv

Still looking for input but I think it is worth putting the engine in the truck, road test it.

Cheers Phil