My Uncle

[Private_collector]

Originally Posted by hrpearce

Thanks Tony B I'll definately look into it as far as i can and my cousin will help me once I get some leads as he would like to know about his farthers service life.

I have just found the following information regarding release of files not yet examined. It's not as difficult as I had thought, and I quote:

"You are about to place an order for a copy with the National Archives of Australia.

When will I receive my copy?

You have requested a copy of a Defence service record that has not been cleared for public access (that is it has an access status of Not yet examined).

Requests for copies of records that are Not yet examined will take up to 90 days from the paid request being received by the National Archives. However, it may take less time in periods of reduced demand.

How will I receive my copy?

There are two options available when purchasing a copy an online copy or a colour print copy.

Online copy Colour print copy
An image of each page of the record is made available for public viewing in our online collection database, RecordSearch, accessed through our website.
We will notify you by email (if you have provided an email address) when the online copy is available for viewing.
A colour print copy of the record is mailed to you in a presentation folder; and
if an online copy is not already present, at no additional cost, a digital copy of the record will be made available for public viewing in our online collection database, RecordSearch, accessed through our website.

They are not cheap, but some things are more important that $$$.

[hrpearce]

I just ordered a copy of uncle Ron's service record, now to wait 90 days.

[hrpearce]

Posting at Discharge- 14 Field Company. How would this be depicted on a vehicle?

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by hrpearce

Posting at Discharge- 14 Field Company. How would this be depicted on a vehicle?

Hi Rob,

It's actually 2/14 Field Company, denoting 2nd AIF unit. 14 Field Company was an original WW1 unit.

In depicting your blitz as 2/14 Fd. Coy. there are 2 signs to be considered:

1. Formation sign.
Formation sign is to be stencilled in white on a black background approx 8” x 8”, on front nearside panel and rear offside of any body fitted. You'll need to find out what formation the 2/14 Fd. Coy. was attached to at the time you wish to depict. It may have been 11th Division at one stage, in which case see pic 1. However I really don't know enough to be of much help here.

Unit sign.
Removable plate 8 1/2” wide by 9 1/2” deep, fitted to holder on front nearside of vehicle and rear offside of any body fitted. Prior to 1944, unit signs bore a single number only, which was unrelated to the unit number itself. The single number system was later deemed impractical, and was replaced by a new numbering system in the form of a fraction, eg:

2-14
___
60

background colour indicates arm of service (blue = Engineers)
numerator indicates unit number (2nd 14th)
denominator indicates type of unit (60 = Field Company)

In this way the 2/14 Fd. Coy. could be distinguished from say, 2/14 Battalion, which would be on a red background denoting Infantry, with denomitator 56 denoting Infantry Battalion.

Or 2/14 Field Regiment, which would be on a horizontal blue and red background denoting Artillery, with denominator 74 denoting Field Regiment. An example of this particular unit sign is seen in pic 2. Being an irregular vehicle it hasn't been fitted with unit sign holders, which may have forced the formation sign over to the wrong side.

The D1 marking on this vehicle is a tactical sign, indicating D Troop, Tractor 1. Instructions for tactical signs include: “The type, shape, size and colouring of tactical signs will be as laid down in the Standing Orders of each formation. Tactical signs will be placed on vehicles.....on the front doors on both sides, and, where considered necessary by formation etc commanders, on the front and rear.” There may have been tactical signs on some Field Company vehicles, but I really wouldn't know.

That's about the full extent of my knowledge I'm afraid Rob. At least you can do the unit sign anyway. If I come across anything else I'll let you know.

Cheers,
Tony

[hrpearce]

Thank you again for your help I'll have to get a move on and restore some more pieces for the Blitz so I can mount unit signs etc.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by hrpearce

Posting at Discharge- 14 Field Company. How would this be depicted on a vehicle?

Hi again Rob,

Your question has prompted me to renew my efforts to come to grips with vehicle numbering systems, as detailed in Stephen Taubert's 477 page paper on the subject! Thankfully this time I seem to be getting a bit further than previous attempts.

Here are some excerpts concerning units assigned to L. of C. Areas (Line of Communication) which pertain to your uncle's unit while engaged in construction works on the Wau-Bulldog Road during 1943.



System of Vehicle Marking
January, 1943


5. FORMATION SIGN

(e) L of C Areas will not have a sign. Vehicles belonging to a L of C unit will have letters denoting the L of C Area to which the unit belongs placed in block letters on the lower part of the plate bearing the unit serial number and colour background.


6. UNIT SIGN

(c) (iii) L of C units will have a white horizontal bar, 2” deep, across the bottom of the plate, in the centre of which will be placed the letters denoting the L of C Area to which the unit belongs. The following letters will be used by L of C Areas

Queensland L of C Area … “Q”
N.S.W. L of C Area … “N”
Victoria. L of C Area … “V”
etc.
New Guinea L of C Area … “NG”





Appendix "R" - Unit signs to be used by L. of C. Areas

Arm Unit Unit Serial No. Background

Engrs A Fd Coy 373 blue
A Fd Coy 352 blue
A Fd Coy 428 blue



Hence the 2/14 Fd. Coy. would have no formation sign while on the Bulldog Road, and their unit sign would be in the format shown in the diagram below. The background would be blue, with the letter Q replaced by NG, and the unit serial no. 415 replaced by either 373, 352, or 428.

Note that three Unit Serial Numbers were reserved for Field Companies, to allow for up to three Field Companies in a L. of C. Area (as there would be in a full Division). Unfortunately I haven't yet figured out on what basis they were allocated, so I don't know which number would have been allocated to 2/14 Fd. Coy.

Confusing isn't it!

Cheers,
Tony

[Tony Wheeler]

Rob, here's a few pics from the Bulldog Road. Unfortunately no unit signs visible. Can you believe that CMP frontal view? It's like they cropped the TAC plate deliberately!

[hrpearce]

Thanks Tony this help is greatly apreciated.

[Private_collector]

Robert,

Do you have the correct size plates for the unit and 'PASS' sign?

I had a set made here in Gympie, for $24.50 each.

They are the size of 8&1/2" by 9&1/2", which is as Tony Wheeler has stated.
Mind you, he would have made em in 2ft by 2ft if I had asked .

Anyhoo, when I picked mine up, I asked if he was interested in making more and he was happy to do so, if anyone requested. They do take a little time to get right, so I don't begrudge the $$$. I would imagine anyone with metalwork skills & a folder could do same without problem if talented. I'm not, so I bought them instead.

In the photos that Tony W. posted, I suspect they did censor the TAC & bridge plates deliberately. Pity! When I was investigating the correct signage for my vehicle, I scanned through over 200 pages of military regulations and associated BS, before I was able to determine what should be on the unit plate. You are lucky that Tony W saved you all that crap That must be worth a beer some time in the future.
29-46 parade.jpg
Once I thought I had the right sequence of numbers, this photo confirmed that I was on the right track. Note the sign by the parade route. This shows the 29/46 Infantry Batallion being reviewed by a member of British aristocracy. Somewhere in this photo (possibly) would be my Father.
29-46 japan surrenders.jpg
That's him standing with both arms up and the slouch hat in right hand. This photo shows the day they were told Japan had surrendered. I think it was Keith that spotted the CMP in the extreme background. Dad was a driver/mechanic so it was very likely that that was his charge!

It is great that you are considering adding the signage of your uncles unit to your vehicle. Do please post any interesting findings from the requested documents, when they arrive, and of course, photos of the unit plates too.

[hrpearce]

No I don't have the plates yet or the holder, all I have is the angled bracket that bolts to the front of the mudguard to mount it to. There is a batered holder on the tailgate for my body so I will have a go at making my owne. Half the fun is learning new skills.
When I get the papers from the archives I will share.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by hrpearce

I just ordered a copy of uncle Ron's service record, now to wait 90 days.

Here's a book to keep you occupied in the meantime. The author was an officer with 2/14 Fd. Coy. on the Wau Road. He was in charge of a platoon, so there's a one in three chance he was your uncle's CO.

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Maker-and...item2a1e2c64d3

[hrpearce]

Thanks Tony W. I just bought the book.
Notice so far I have only received responces from the TONY club