12 volt condensor

[Blackpowder44 (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Little Jo

Hi John

What I like about our forum is the various options that can be applied and what works for some and that others had not heard of or done. This brings me to another sublect I have been wondering about. When I restored my Jeep I was told not to use the modern Anti Freeze Green Coolant in my old Jeep motor. I have been using rain water in my radiator. However I have been following a lot of different MLU forums and I have seen some photographs showing that the modern Green Anti Freeze Coolant is used in old engines by some MLU members. The question is do I stick with rain water or can I use the Green stuff that is used in modern engines.

Cheers

Tony

NO. use only the old blue anti freeze, there is a whole page of info somewhere on the internet,Have just googled anti freeze in old engines and found all the info that you will need to make up your mind, John.

[Dave Page]

Hi Guys,
I have no idea how many times I have heard the -must harden your valve seat talk - because there isn't any lead in the fuel. For engines of WW2 vintage this is not true for several reasons. First, engines of our period were developed to run without lead, Tetraethyl lead was added during the war to -boost- the octane level (more on that later) this was done to reduce engine knock/pre-ignition.
Secondly, the engines are of low compression and therefore do not generate the heat that one finds in modern (post-50's) engines, which could damage valves or seats.
Thirdly, the lead salt deposits actually damage the valve stems and can foul spark plugs; decoking was common practice in part because of this.

Now, back to the octane boosting, when the octane level is increased the burn rate of the fuel is actually slowed down. Think of it like this, a low octane fuel will burn -very- quickly, the resulting explosion will drive the piston down quickly as if struck down by a large hammer. Whereas a high octane fuel will burn slower and the resulting explosion will push the piston down as the fuel is still burning. This means less pressure and stress on your old toy.
By-all-means add an octane booster to your fuel, one with a top-end lubricant is also cheap insurance for flathead (valves in block) types. I have an Indian 741 and it runs so much better with a drop of Blendzall gold. My Daimler also runs better with a mix of the above product, though it is OHV so the top-end lube is probably overkill but she runs fine. If you feel you must add lead then go ahead but just be aware of what is going on.
Cheers,
Dave

[Blackpowder44 (RIP)]

Originally Posted by Dave Page

Hi Guys,
I have no idea how many times I have heard the -must harden your valve seat talk - because there isn't any lead in the fuel. For engines of WW2 vintage this is not true for several reasons. First, engines of our period were developed to run without lead, Tetraethyl lead was added during the war to -boost- the octane level (more on that later) this was done to reduce engine knock/pre-ignition.
Secondly, the engines are of low compression and therefore do not generate the heat that one finds in modern (post-50's) engines, which could damage valves or seats.
Thirdly, the lead salt deposits actually damage the valve stems and can foul spark plugs; decoking was common practice in part because of this.

Now, back to the octane boosting, when the octane level is increased the burn rate of the fuel is actually slowed down. Think of it like this, a low octane fuel will burn -very- quickly, the resulting explosion will drive the piston down quickly as if struck down by a large hammer. Whereas a high octane fuel will burn slower and the resulting explosion will push the piston down as the fuel is still burning. This means less pressure and stress on your old toy.
By-all-means add an octane booster to your fuel, one with a top-end lubricant is also cheap insurance for flathead (valves in block) types. I have an Indian 741 and it runs so much better with a drop of Blendzall gold. My Daimler also runs better with a mix of the above product, though it is OHV so the top-end lube is probably overkill but she runs fine. If you feel you must add lead then go ahead but just be aware of what is going on.
Cheers,
Dave

Thank Christ there is at least one of us on here that understands our old engines and leaded or unleaded petrol. John.

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Dave Page

I have no idea how many times I have heard the -must harden your valve seat talk - because there isn't any lead in the fuel. For engines of WW2 vintage this is not true for several reasons. First, engines of our period were developed to run without lead, Tetraethyl lead was added during the war to -boost- the octane level (more on that later) this was done to reduce engine knock/pre-ignition.

Dave,
You may not be aware, but quite number of military vehicles built during WW2 were fitted from new with hardened valve seats, to give a few examples, Dodge WC models, Austin K5 and K6, Morris Commercial four cyl engines, etc. so nothing wrong in fitting them now. If a valve seat is recut too many times it pockets, then the exhaust valve suffers burning as the hot gasses cannot freely escape. By fitting hardened seat on overhaul, it is a fit and forget operation as with the low use most of these vehicles have it will reduce the times a head is lifted to attend to burnt seats.

[Dave Page]

Hi Richard,
at risk of hijacking this thread - I was not aware of the specific use of hardened seats, and was talking in general. I should also have added that if you drive your old machine at period speeds for short runs then there should not be a problem.
Cheers,
Dave

[Lynn Eades]

Back to the condensor.
Tony Generally speaking the condensor is matched to the coil. If the condenser is over capacity or under capacity it results in arcing at the points (contact set) and a transfer of material (platinum) to one or the other side, resulting in a short life to points. (btw, vented points are a better option if available)
If the condensor is u/s.(i.e. completely stuffed) it will often leave the points burned black.If it still goes, it won't for long. They should be a clean grey. (the only other possibility here is oil getting into the points)
You will probably notice that 6 volt condensors are bigger than 12 volt condensors. (this might be an age/ construction thing, all the same, its a good guide)
Sometimes you can buy one with the microfarad value stamped into the body, and in some cases they were available in different values for the same application.
Having converted to 12 volt you should change the condensor for one made for a 12 volt application. Any one you can get in the hole, and hook the wire up will do. All you need is the thing clamped or screwed to the distributor body, and the wire hooked up to the feed to the points. You will notice that the early jappers had them on the outside of the dizzy. Keep an eye on the points, and try a different condensor if they are tranfering metal faster than they should. The local auto electrician might be able to help regarding capacity up or down. If your coil came from a certain type of vehicle, a condensor of the same capacity, as that vehicles condensor, will do the trick.
I vaguely recall seeing in a wartime training pamphlet, teaching the drivers to make a tempory condensor using a bean can and paper. Maybe someone can recall.
Anyhoo you have it sorted. My guess, from your description, fuel.
Hopefully this has filled a few knowledge gaps, for some of the would be mecanical lurkers out there.

[motto]

To change tack a little bit Tony there is 'Another Way' and that is to install electronic ignition which I would thoroughly recommend to anybody. I've installed it on my '43 Dodge 6x6 1-1/2 ton and am very happy with it. No more condenser or points problems forever. Set and forget.

David

[Little Jo]

Originally Posted by motto

To change tack a little bit Tony there is 'Another Way' and that is to install electronic ignition which I would thoroughly recommend to anybody. I've installed it on my '43 Dodge 6x6 1-1/2 ton and am very happy with it. No more condenser or points problems forever. Set and forget.

David

Hi David

My younger brother suggested that to me as well. I think that is something to think about. I Know there are a lot of restorers who would not agree as they would like to see everything original, but technology has marched on and I guess we have to move with the times when all else fails.

Cheers

Tony

[Little Jo]

Originally Posted by Lynn Eades

Back to the condensor.
Tony Generally speaking the condensor is matched to the coil. If the condenser is over capacity or under capacity it results in arcing at the points (contact set) and a transfer of material (platinum) to one or the other side, resulting in a short life to points. (btw, vented points are a better option if available)
If the condensor is u/s.(i.e. completely stuffed) it will often leave the points burned black.If it still goes, it won't for long. They should be a clean grey. (the only other possibility here is oil getting into the points)
You will probably notice that 6 volt condensors are bigger than 12 volt condensors. (this might be an age/ construction thing, all the same, its a good guide)
Sometimes you can buy one with the microfarad value stamped into the body, and in some cases they were available in different values for the same application.
Having converted to 12 volt you should change the condensor for one made for a 12 volt application. Any one you can get in the hole, and hook the wire up will do. All you need is the thing clamped or screwed to the distributor body, and the wire hooked up to the feed to the points. You will notice that the early jappers had them on the outside of the dizzy. Keep an eye on the points, and try a different condensor if they are tranfering metal faster than they should. The local auto electrician might be able to help regarding capacity up or down. If your coil came from a certain type of vehicle, a condensor of the same capacity, as that vehicles condensor, will do the trick.
I vaguely recall seeing in a wartime training pamphlet, teaching the drivers to make a tempory condensor using a bean can and paper. Maybe someone can recall.
Anyhoo you have it sorted. My guess, from your description, fuel.
Hopefully this has filled a few knowledge gaps, for some of the would be mecanical lurkers out there.

Hi Lynn

The condensor I replaced was about the same diameter as the old one I removed and accoding to the guy at the auto shop would match the new 12 Volt Bosch Coil I installed. Having rechecked everything again all I can say the problem is gone and my Jeep now has plenty of grunt. Tomorrow I am taking her out on a long club run so fingers crossed this will be a good test run.

Thanks to all you MLU guys for the very interesting advice and suggestions. It is fantastic for a novice like me to have so much information to learn and remember. I really do appreciate it. You guys in MLU are so supportive and have always been there to assist and help me and I guess this is why I enjoy my new found, and very addictive hobby.

1st Photo is the old Condensor
2nd Photo is the new installed Condensor.

Cheers

Tony