AUS CMP tyre loading ramp

[Harry Moon]

Which one or both? Are wrong. The 20CWT wheels look and are the same as other Canadian trailers in Canada's Fighting Vehicles.
Why would the Australian Army make up a manual or picture of the tire Carrier with an oddball truck unless they were more common than thought. In my Pictures From The Reynolds Collection in Alberta there at least 6 trucks with those Dually's front and back.

[Mike Cecil]

Gents,

The image per Harry Moon listed as 'possible collection in Europe' was taken inside the Melbourne Tank Museum, Australia, and is on a CMP based wrecker. The tyre carrier of this design is unique to Aust production. Note also the Centurion ARV Mk2 in the background.

The period image with the tyre ramp and 'conventional' wheels is of an Australian tipper, viz, 'Truck, 3 ton, Tipper, 2-1/2 to 3 Cu Yd'. There were four main marks (and a number or sub-marks, depending upon the hoist fitted): the early timber bodied version had standard CMP wheels, later versions had 8.25x20 tyres on conventional rims: singles at front, duals at rear. The front wheels could be 'dualled' if the terrain required it. The latter wheels were also retrofitted to the early version from time to time, so there is no hard and fast rule about their fitment. In Australia, the tippers were the only CMP during the war to be fitted with conventional wheels and 8.25x20 tyres as standard that I'm aware of.

The 'Tractor, Artillery, Aust No.6' (the Aust LAA tractor) was originally fitted with standard CMP wheels, but post war (they lasted until the late 50s), many of those remaining in service were converted to dual rear wheels. In 'Take Post', the story of the 18th LAA Regt, there is a 1955 colour image of two No.6 tractors: one with, and one without dual rear wheels.

Early Aust CMP 20-inch wheel stowage did not include a tyre/wheel ramp: this was a modification introduced in late 1943. Earlier production mounts not fitted with a ladder were not modified. It is therefore concievable that at least early production No.6 tractors were not equipped with any form of ramp to assist with stowage of the spare.

The Aust CMP 16-inch wheel carrier was not fitted with a ramp.

There is also the complication that a number of tactical trucks were designed without stowage for a spare, on the basis that they were to be fitted with RF tyres. When the fitting of RF tyres was discontinued (rubber shortages), the dilema was where to put the spare. The 'Tractor, Artillery Aust. No.8' is a case in point, and you will see images with the spare slung onto the roof. Apparently, there were enough men in a gun crew riding in the artillery tractor to achieve this by brute strength! The No.9 tractor was fitted with both a spare (carried inside the rear body, right side) and a stowage ladder (stowed on the outside on the right).

Mike C

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Harry Moon

Why would the Australian Army make up a manual or picture of the tire Carrier with an oddball truck unless they were more common than thought.

Hi Harry,

It's my guess they just picked the nearest truck and it happened to be a tipper! They were produced in considerable numbers here (judging by the number of survivors) so it's not particularly unlikely. I'm sure Mike is correct in saying: "In Australia, the tippers were the only CMP during the war to be fitted with conventional wheels and 8.25x20 tyres as standard that I'm aware of."

I guess it's possible that dual wheels occasionally found their way onto non-tippers in the field, as seems to have been the case in post war years as mentioned by Keith: "I have seen post-war pics of No6 CGTs fitted with dual rear wheels, a field mod no doubt." However I don't recall seeing any wartime pics of duals on non-tippers.

After disposal of course a great many CMPs were fitted with duals for road use, mostly by dealers I suspect, who offered customers a choice of singles or duals (see ad below). It seems there were several different types used, and I happen to have a couple of the type pictured on the spare tyre ramp. These came off an F60L wreck. As you can see they have 6 cutouts in the wheel centre, unlike yours which have 5 cutouts. I suspect the 20cwt trailers may have used early Ford wheels - I'll post some pics shortly which may help identify.

Cheers,
Tony

[Harry Moon]

I see your wheels are 8 stud and look like they would fit on a standard CMP brake and hub.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

I suspect the 20cwt trailers may have used early Ford wheels - I'll post some pics shortly which may help identify.

These may not be much help Harry but they're all I can find at present as I don't often photograph commercial trucks.

First two pics appear to show early Ford wheels and hubs fitted to Ford CMP axle, which is fitted to Chev CMP chassis!

Following two pics appear to show early Ford axle fitted to cut-down Studebaker chassis with original tipper, converted into a trailer!

Wheel centres look very similar to yours....not sure about rim width though.

[Keith Webb]

I suspect this pic may have been published in one of the regular pamphlets which introduced new equipment into service. There are other pics of loading a CMP wheel using the standard ramp.

There's a lot of careful photo retouching in this pic, a fairly normal practice at the time, it was a real art.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

There's a lot of careful photo retouching in this pic, a fairly normal practice at the time, it was a real art

Now, don't tell me it was photoshopped!?! It couldn't have been, back in those days photoshop didn't exist yet.

[Tony Wheeler]

On second thoughts...I have no idea what this tipper/trailer used to be! One for the experts...

[cliff]

Almost looks like a Chev 4X4 tipper body

[Mike Cecil]

Standard US production all steel base body.

The rear view shows the lower coaming, half cut away, with the remaining half with the taillamp recess/aperture.

Keith's image: note the soldier has a 9 Infantry Division colour patch (2nd version).

Mike C

[Tony Smith]

Originally Posted by Mike Cecil

Keith's image: note the soldier has a 9 Infantry Division colour patch (2nd version).

Mike C

To expand on this, the "2nd Version" patches still used the original colour schemes, but were changed to a "T" shape in recognition of that unit's service in Tobruk!