Centaur - British Armour

[kevin powles]

Hi Gents, I am restoring a ww2 Centaur tank and am looking for an illustrated parts list if there is such a thing. I am not sure if they served with any Canadian units but I am sure Cromwells did?. So if anyone has any leads to parts or can help with this project it would greatly be appreciated. here are a few pics, first is as found on the range being transported yesterday and the strip down begins today.

kevin.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Kevin,

congrats on the purchase; very nice! I guess it came from Rick? Did it come with the turret and gun as well? I love to hear more about the project and wil keep my eyes open for a manual......original or will photocopies do for the moment?

Alex

would love to see a running Royal Marines Close support Centaur one day!

[kevin powles]

Hi Alex, No Turret, No Gun but its early days. I have a fairly good instruction manual but was looking for something similar to the good old FUC-O3 Carrier parts manual, either paper copy or disc. I might need your help in recovering a carrier axle from your part of the world.

kevin.

[Lynn Eades]

Your cost of living has just gone up. A courageous move. I guess you are in the market for hens teeth, and rocking horse poop? Congratulations!

[kevin powles]

Hi Lynn, Yes courageous move, just dont tell the missus!.

[Alex van de Wetering]

Hi Alex, No Turret, No Gun but its early days. I have a fairly good instruction manual but was looking for something similar to the good old FUC-O3 Carrier parts manual, either paper copy or disc. I might need your help in recovering a carrier axle from your part of the world.

kevin.

Early days maybe, but I do like the fact that you have already started on the project! Let me know what you have in mind regarding the carrier axle.

Alex

[Lynn Eades]

How do you hide a thing like that!

[RichardT10829]

its all a dream.... or the old faithful reply "Honey, its not mine, its Shaun's I am just looking after it as his missus will go nuts if she finds out"

works for loads of stuff


congrats Kevin....keep collecting these things and we will need to change your surname to "Wheatcroft" soon

[Neil Ashley]

I remember boxed Liberty Engines being available some years ago.

No ideal where they came from or if any still available.

[Andy Foulds]

Originally Posted by kevin powles

Hi Lynn, Yes courageous move, just dont tell the missus!.

Does you're missus know yet or are you doing what I do keep stum until she finds out and then plead my innocence

[eddy8men]

great to see you are getting stuck in to it so soon, good for you mate. i'll keep my eyes open for the parts you need. i have a lead on a liberty for you

rick

[kevin powles]

Andy, No not letting the missus know yet as it might spoil my trip to Vegas in a few weeks, which she doesnt know about yet either.

Rick, I hope to get it stripped, blasted and painted, sitting on new suspension, wheels and tracks my the end of March next year.

I would prefer to put in a Meteor engine for reliability and ease of access to spares, but if a Liberty came up at the right price?. Just got to put in some extra hours at work to pay for it all.

kevin.

[Andy Foulds]

Originally Posted by kevin powles

Andy, No not letting the missus know yet as it might spoil my trip to Vegas in a few weeks, which she doesnt know about yet either.

Rick, I hope to get it stripped, blasted and painted, sitting on new suspension, wheels and tracks my the end of March next year.

kevin.

Kevin

Like it lets hope you do get it on its tracks next year Beltring 2015?

[Malcolm Shaw]

Originally Posted by Michael R.

. . . I am not sure if they served with any Canadian units. . .

Images belong to Archives Canada

1) Guardsman R.W. Ferguson of The Canadian Grenadier Guards watches two French children examining his Centaur MkII anti-aircraft vehicle, Elbeuf, France, 28 August 1944

2) Unidentified crew of a Centaur Mk II anti-aircraft vehicle of The Canadian Grenadier Guards talking with three French women, Elbeuf, France, 28 August 1944

These are actually Crusader AA vehicles.

[maple_leaf_eh]

God speed and good luck.

[eddy8men]

i like your style mate, putting down a mission statement like that takes a lot of balls.
just try not to sacrifice too much of your personal time.

all the best
rick

ps. for what it's worth, in my opinion i would try to go down the liberty engine route as there are plenty of cromwells but no centaurs, also i have it on good authority that liberty sounds much sweeter. there's a spare one at the cobbatton combat collection !

[tankbarrell]

The Liberty is a very free running engine and the Centaur is nice to drive. The only problem is you run out of revs very quickly so are always changing gear!

[RichardT10829]

I would imagine the liberty will do everything you need matey, however if you decide to go to north Africa you may have reliability issues :-)

[David Herbert]

Kevin,

The Liberty is a very free revving engine, helped by having a much lighter clutch and crankshaft than a Meteor. This makes it very easy to change gear although as Adrian says you do need to do it more often as the Meteor has another 1000 rpm over the Liberty. In fact the torque curve (and so the HP) is almost the same up to the point when the Liberty runs out of revs so the acceleration to that point is possibly better with the Liberty but the Meteor keeps on going. It is not that the Centaur is slow but that the Cromwell is fast, to the point that they were breaking tracks. The cure was a slower final drive ratio and much stronger tracks which were also slightly wider to help with the inevitable extra weight that had been gained. A Centaur with its original track and final drives is very nice to drive and the Liberty that is fitted in a Centaur is a world more reliable than the one in a Crusader. The biggest reliability problem with a restored Centaur is the hydraulic system used for the clutch and brakes but that is shared with Cromwell, Comet and Churchill as the components are identical. Good luck with finding parts !

David

[Haridimos]

Congrats from my turn Kevin!

The two post-war photos you've posted on Saturday shows Greek Army's Centaurs as you now.
The year is 1957 and the place called Amyndaio, near the border with Yugoslavia. (now FYROM).

[kevin powles]

Hi, Thanks for the positive comments guys, I have obtained today a full set of NOS shock absorbers a NOS drivers seat and most of the suspension bump stops NOS.

All the wheel bearing for this tank appear to be still available to.

Has anyone got an original or copy of the Centaur Chilwell 62/660 ILLUSTRATED PARTS BOOK?.

kevin.

[Roddy de Normann]

Kostas -

Are there any Greek records available today listing what the Greek Army bought or was given in the way of tracked vehicles ? When did they get such kit and what did they get ?

Would such lists have the former UK census numbers ?

Roddy

[Haridimos]

Hi Roddy,

I will post what is known about the Centaurs in Greek service later in the day, editing this post.

I have a surprise for Kevin also!

kostas.

[Roddy de Normann]

Kostas -

Great, really look forward to that...

Roddy

[Luke R]

Found some spares for sale.

http://www.milweb.net/webverts/60853/

Luke

[Haridimos]

Originally Posted by Roddy1011

Kostas -

Are there any Greek records available today listing what the Greek Army bought or was given in the way of tracked vehicles ? When did they get such kit and what did they get ?

What we know today is that the British Army donated fifty two (52) Centaurs to the Greeks the first months of 1946 in order to complete the equipment of the latter with british materials and to use all these against the communist rebels at a second fase. Of cource, training on Centaurs was awarded to British istructors. The tanks formed three squadrons.

1. Here, Major V.J. Senior (L) and his assistant Major "Q" Kirby (R) in front of a Sherman ARV M-32 and a Centaur.
2. Before a military parade at Athens, Oct 1947.
3. Centaurs at the training campus, at Attica 1947. At left, maybe a Lynx.

[easo]

What is the difference between a Centaur and a Cromwell?

There is a Cromwell here in Pucka that looks very much the same as your Centaur.

http://www.armytankmuseum.com.au/i-vd.htm

Regards Easo

[tankbarrell]

Originally Posted by easo

What is the difference between a Centaur and a Cromwell?

Centaur is A27L with a Liberty engine.
Cromwell is A27M with a Meteor engine.

There are usually other differences but these are related to when it was built rather than model specific.

i.e. F type hull with the drivers side escape hatch is only found on Cromwell because Centaur production had ceased by the time it was introduced.

The engine installation is designed to be interchangeable between the two though fan drives, clutch and oil cooler and filter are also different. The switchbox allows for either coil or magneto igntion as required.

[eddy8men]

hi kev

you've probably seen the cavalier for sale on milweb which would pretty much give you everything you need for your centaur but you would then be left with a stripped cavalier hull and there in lies the problem with buying one historic tank to fix another, what to do with the spare one !
whatever you decide good luck with it, when it's done you'll have the only running mk1 centaur in the world. a very worthwhile project.

rick

[Roddy de Normann]

Kostas -

Thanks for the details and great pics...I will see if I can find anything in the National Archives at Kew next time I am there...