Ford Blitz Restoration/Rebuild

[Jacques Reed]

Further to this discussion I have found it is very difficult over the years to find original hydraulic brake line on any CMP vehicles. If they are not completely removed then they are bent beyond recognition or jury rigged from whatever tubing was left lying around.

I attached some photos I took back in 1991 of what I think was an original set of front diff lines on a F15A based on their age, quality of fabrication and lack of damage. I used their design for fabricating my lines.

As for the rear lines I had no originals to go by. The lines shown came on a second truck I bought. The left side seems old and quite well made and could be original. The right side needed a bit of fairing to conform to the diff having been damaged at a few places.
In view of lack of any other info I have used their shape to fabricate the new rear diff lines. I am sure there are many other variations on the theme.

Also included is a recent photo of a chassis line leading to the front diff through a grommet on a paddock bomb F15A. Again whether it is original or not is debateable but the flare fitting tube joiner caught my eye. Maybe the front was damaged and a new tube spliced in or was it "factory" to make installing the "L" shape tubing through the chassis easier?

Cheers,

[Ganmain Tony]

Here's some photo's from mine - there are two arrangements in the manuals and that can make it seem confusing.

But it isnt really (once youve completed it of course)..

Phil is correct, the line to the back brakes runs down the left hand side. The lines to the front run along their respective sides.
You need three flex hoses in all...

[Keith Webb]

Actually it's 4 hoses on a 4X4, one to go to the front axle, one for each front wheel, and another to go to the rear axle.

Originally Posted by Ganmain Tony

Here's some photo's from mine - there are two arrangements in the manuals and that can make it seem confusing.

But it isnt really (once youve completed it of course)..

Phil is correct, the line to the back brakes runs down the left hand side. The lines to the front run along their respective sides.
You need three flex hoses in all...

[Keith Webb]

GTony, yours is correct, you're just missing the clamps.



You can see it's the same on both sides as on this very original ex RAAF F60L.

The rubber pipe is also original as this truck was fitted for a braked trailer.

[Ganmain Tony]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Actually it's 4 hoses on a 4X4, one to go to the front axle, one for each front wheel, and another to go to the rear axle.

Only three old boy...only three.

There are two layouts in the manual. One uses 4 the other uses 3.

[Private_collector]

Originally Posted by Ganmain Tony

Only three old boy...only three.

There are two layouts in the manual. One uses 4 the other uses 3.

My vehicle does have three flexible lines on front end. One from chassis to a three-way junction on left of diff housing, from there the copper lines (cheese now!) go outwards to a bracket on each end of the axle tubes. The flexible lines to the wheel cylinders start at that bracket. Three front lines in total. The mortal remains of the rubber hoses were still there for me to cheat off.

There is now a great wealth of photos posted here in last few days. Maybe they could be gathered and copied to a thread specifically for poor boobs like me to mooch off!

General hint, moderators

[Ganmain Tony]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

My vehicle does have three flexible lines on front end. One from chassis to a three-way junction on left of diff housing, from there the copper lines (cheese now!) go outwards to a bracket on each end of the axle tubes. The flexible lines to the wheel cylinders start at that bracket. Three front lines in total. The mortal remains of the rubber hoses were still there for me to cheat off.

There is now a great wealth of photos poted here in last few days. Maybe they could be gathered and copied to a thread specifically for poor boobs like me to mooch off!

General hint, moderators

Yours may very well be the set up that uses 4 flex hoses. Mine used 3.

Raises all sorts of questions as to when and why each arrangement was used and well worth discussing.

Myself - Id stick with the simpler arrangement. However if yours originally came with 4 flex hose arrangment you'll probably want to stick with that.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

There is now a great wealth of photos poted here in last few days. Maybe they could be gathered and copied to a thread specifically for poor boobs like me to mooch off!

General hint, moderators

Tony, good point, when I have the time I'll pick up the challenge to merge the brake line related postings with the thread I posted earlier.

Hanno

[Private_collector]

Cool. Cheers Hanno.

That'll be good Karma.

My karma ran over my dogma.

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Ganmain Tony

Only three old boy...only three.

There are two layouts in the manual. One uses 4 the other uses 3.

Yes, 3 on a 4X2, 4 on a 4X4, unless early ones used the 4X2 type of arrangement.

[Ganmain Tony]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Yes, 3 on a 4X2, 4 on a 4X4, unless early ones used the 4X2 type of arrangement.

The manual Ive got published June 1943 says the 3 flex layout used for F15 and F15A.

[Keith Webb]

Originally Posted by Ganmain Tony

The manual Ive got published June 1943 says the 3 flex layout used for F15 and F15A.

LOL, OK you win... but have you ever seen one on a cab 13 Ford?

[Keith Webb]

Jacques, I've seen that joiner before too.

On the rear, yours is almost correct, but you'll see there is a threaded hole just under the spring on the axle which is for a securing clamp where the pipe should go. That way there is less risk of crushing the pipe when reversing.



I'll have a look at the FGT which is original, and which also means should be replaced for safety, the only major difference is where the rear line connects to the flexible hose - because the winch is in the way the mounting bracket is on the winch mount.

[Ganmain Tony]

Picture is of rear diff, right hand side. You can see brake line clip in the middle, which I have used since to correctly locate the brake line.

The other is that arrangement of the front brake lines posted by Jacques is in the manual.

My guess is they went to the simpler arrangement because it saves using one flex hose. War time material efficiency I would think.

[Grant Bowker]

I know you are discussing Fords and that in many ways Chevs are different. On Chevs, the 2 flex line setup on the front axle was the early one and the 3 line was the later. There is a Chev Service Bulletin listing the parts and procedures to make the change. I suspect the change was due to the longer lines from frame to wheel cylinder getting snagged on brush or tire chains. Also, the early lines (at least on Chevs) were held up by an arrangement of clips and springs inside the wheel well. If this was damaged or deleted in use or servicing I think the chances of damage would have gone up dramatically.

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Keith Webb

Jacques, I've seen that joiner before too.

On the rear, yours is almost correct, but you'll see there is a threaded hole just under the spring on the axle which is for a securing clamp where the pipe should go. That way there is less risk of crushing the pipe when reversing.

Hi Keith,

Thanks for your photo and info. Should have known you would have a photo of an original rear diff brake line setup!

I noticed that hole on the diff spring plate and laboriously removed the broken bolt and cleaned up the threads in it years ago. Had a hunch it may have clamped the brake lines but without any original to compare went by previous owners "artistic license" regarding the rear diff lines.

That joiner too was also used on the truck for the rear chassis brake line on the truck with the non-standard rear diff brake lines. I assumed it was done by the previous owner to make the 90 degree turn to the master cylinder easier. Can anyone confirm if those joiners were a standard fitment from the factory or a later civillian modification?

Anyway Bundy tubing is cheap so I might bend up a new set of rear lines based on your photo and other info here. Will be an expert in doing double flares by the time I am done!

[Private_collector]

Hi folks.

Jacques,

In comparing brake line photos, there a certainly differences in the lines. My front one was original but squashed in places. I copied off that and recreated a fairly close copy. I must admit I dont like seeing the tubing anywhere near a surface that could rub against it now or later. For that reason, I tend to add more bends to the line, to follow around raised areas, brackets, etc. That is most evident on the rear set of tubes, but the front ones have a lesser degree of the creative licence. My rear right side line does not follow around the diff hump like yours does. I'm wondering if I can rework that one to do so. Will have a look at that tomorrow. I have saved a copy of those photos for future reference. Thanks!

After roughly a week of back & forth emails to Macs, I finally got the information I had initially requested. That being the OD measurement of a shackle bolt in their 1932-1948 passenger &1932 -1947 pickup catalog. It is the correct Ford part, 01T-5780, but I have had experiences in past where I have gone from part no. alone, only to discover Ford reused the number for a subsequent civilian vehicle application, and the part was way too small.

The exact lising for the shackle bolt is: "38-47 4.28" long, 2 ton truck except 122" (6 required).......01T-5780 $9.50. This is the 1" thick bolt for Ford rear springs on 4x4 vehicles. I have no experience or info as to whether it is same for the 4x2 variants. Have now ordered six of these, along with the bolt locking pins (part no. 81T-5782) for each. I should not need to purchase bushings from Macs, because local hydraulic shop can source an extensive range of bushings. I prefer to try to support local businesses, so long as the service warrants this!

My thanks to Jacques, for supplying me with the rear spring hanger which I had been missing. once again, the MLU community to the rescue.

[Private_collector]

By good fortune of having the remains of left side rear line, my replacement does go along past the hole that Keith is referring to. I'm glad you mentioned that Keith. I had initially thought that was quite a tight fit there and considered NOT going through there, but eventually did it same way.

Not looking forward to ordering the bolts etc for front springs, bearing in mind the amout of effort it took to get the dimension of rear bolt from the guy at Macs. It was a simple request for one measurement, but they asked for the vehicle type and model, then said 'sorry, Macs does not supply parts for your application'. One more email later, reminding them I wasn't asking for suitability just a technical spec., I eventually got my affirmative answer. For some reason, some of these companies (both online & over counter) seem to feel that if it's not in their vehicle compatability list then it can't possibly be suitable. That really shits me to be honest. Give me fact, not opinions.

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

Not looking forward to ordering the bolts etc for front springs, bearing in mind the amout of effort it took to get the dimension of rear bolt from the guy at Macs.

Just re-reading posts: Try Auto Surplus in Mitcham Vic. I remember they bought up a lot of Bruce Cowley's stock from Geelong when he shut up his workshop. He had a bin full of those bolts when I was there a few years back. All still wrapped in grease paper. Hopefully they went to Auto Surplus and not Simsmetal.

Good Luck.

[Private_collector]

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

Try Auto Surplus in Mitcham Vic.

Good tip, thanks. I'll get the correct part numbers and email them tonight.

[Private_collector]

Originally Posted by Jacques Reed

Also included is a recent photo of a chassis line leading to the front diff through a grommet on a paddock bomb F15A. Again whether it is original or not is debateable but the flare fitting tube joiner caught my eye. Maybe the front was damaged and a new tube spliced in or was it "factory" to make installing the "L" shape tubing through the chassis easier?

According to diagram in the maintenance manual (BRAKES E-1), that is part no. 2070, and is a factory item. I have been looking for one of these on ebay as well as a number of the vintage parts suppliers. Not found one that suits, yet.

I expect factory felt it was difficult to produce, or possibly replace whole length in the field. Won't be an issue for me to do in one, but if I do find one before I lay the chassis pipes, I will use one. Once the pipes are in place, that's when they will start dropping out of trees.

Also note that the rear bracket joining pipe to hose looks nothing like any of the examples shown here. In fact it doesnt look like it could possibly work, because it has the pipe etc.. sitting above the bolting position!!!!
20130105_115454.jpg
Here's a photo showing both items. See what I mean about the bracket.

[Jacques Reed]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

According to diagram in the maintenance manual (BRAKES E-1), that is part no. 2070, and is a factory item. I have been looking for one of these on ebay as well as a number of the vintage parts suppliers. Not found one that suits, yet.bracket.

Thanks Tony for answering that question. Haven't seen that diagram before. Perhaps I can answer yours too.

Try my mates at Industrial Fittings for that joiner. It is shown in their online catalog as No. 63, Inverted Flare joiner Part No. 0163-04 for 1/4" tubing.

Cheers