F15A project

[Bill Alexander]

Last summer my brother and I took Dad to Ottawa for a visit to the War Museum. He learned his trade in the army, is a Korean vet and has always had a thing for CMP's. His hobby has been restoring antique vehicles, and he has a small stable of cars. After the visit to the vehicle gallery he thought things over and took the jump. He has acquired a F15 with the 13 pattern cab.
Attached is the truck that he brought home in September. He has been taking the truck apart and preparing the restoration.
He has some questions that his " computer tech" will have to post. With the indulgence of the Forum, I will ask for him.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Bill and Alexander Family

Welcome to the world of CMPs, MLU is the place to ask questions about CMPs. Your Dad and you I hope will find the answer to just about any question you can come up with.

I said Alexander family because hopefully you will all become interested in these strange little vehicles, which are part of Canadian and Commonwealth military vehicle history. That as many of them have survived nearly 70 years says a lot about how tough they were in the first place.

Cheers Phil

[Bill Alexander]

First question for the F15 restoration.
There was a round hatch in the roof of the cab which was covered over by a piece of sheet metal. Images show what is left.







Questions:
1. Does anyone have detailed images or drawings of the hatch and fittings?

2. Is there a kit available to replace the hatch?

[chris vickery]

Bill, I am sure someone will chime in with measurements, unfortunately you are on your own with this one. There is no "kit" available that i am aware of, it will either be re-using an existing hatch ring if available or a custom fabrication.

[maple_leaf_eh]

Bill

If you post your location, the collective wisdom may be able to direct you or your brother towards another collector's completed restoration nearer to the workshop. Using the forum as a go-between may not be the most satisfactory way of getting some information.

As the fellows will tell you, there are few NOS parts for WWII CMPs in Canada. There are commercial equivalents, but the majority of the parts were shipped forward to support the war effort. Ironically, places like the Netherlands and Norway have better CMP resources than where they were built.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Bill

You are not the first person to need a new hatch as the removal of this source of roof leaks was a common post war modification.

Your also not the first person to ask for details to figure out just what it is they are looking for, so here is a link to a page on my CMP web page showing some details of the hatch as seen on 1945 HUP.

http://canadianmilitarypattern.com/H...f%20Detail.htm

Cheers Phil

[Bill Alexander]

Thanks all for the information. Sounds like it may have to be a fabrication.
Follow up question. These were an open hatch, eg with no hinged steel hatch cover, only a canvas one?
Hi Terry, It's my Dad that is doing the restoration. I am his "digital techi", he doesn't do computers. Unfortunately, we live 350 k apart. I will ask him about getting in touch with others.

[cletrac (RIP)]

The canvas hatch was used in North Africa on the Cab11 and Cab 12 trucks.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi David

I think a clearer statement could be made, canvas hatch covers were used in North Africa on some Patter 11 and 12.

I've reviewed many of the photos of North Africa that have been posted over the years on MLU and I can not find a sample, I do distinctly remember having seen a photo of improvised hatches with a canvas cover. Did find picture of a New Zealand Convoy with a Dodge in the foreground that appears to have a canvas hatch cover.

There most definite are examples of square hatches with the sun compass mounted on the roof, see below. There were a butch of color photos with Tan or Sand CMPs but non of them seem to have canvas hatches, though some canvas tops.

Did a quick search of the Australian War Memorial Archives search phrase North Africa, Truck, conflict WWII, which yields many photos in those that I looked at that clearly showed trucks with cabs the majority seemed to be solid tops with no hatch at all. But there are also a large number were the cab tops have been completely removed.

Interesting pictures to look through. Try a browse through http://www.awm.gov.au/search/collections/?mode=advanced

Like this one


Searching the Imperial War Museum yields similar results in looking at the first 20 pages not surprisingly most of the photos showing CMP or Canadian Vehicles have been posted on MLU at one time or another.


But back to Bills original question concerning the Round Hatch on Pattern 13, does any body know when that was introduced?

Bill I am also looking for my notes on the detail of round hatch unit and when I find them will try and post them. Likewise with pattern for the canvas cover that I have as a cad drawing but have never been able to figure out how to post.

Cheers Phil

[cletrac (RIP)]

Here's a Google Life picture from the western desert.

[Bill Alexander]

Thanks. To rephrase my question, was there a steel hatch cover, or only a canvas one?

[Bob Carriere]

You need to talk with Grant Bowker he is refitting one to his cab 13.

He just finished reproducing the large flat ring you showed in you picture.

Now working on the hip ring padding. Having a ring at hand to copy is imperative.......doing one is probably a weekends work if you do not drink to many beers.

I assume that your Dad is either 350 km West or North of you.

Your welcome to visit the barn to see what we are doing....... will have a burger and beer for you.

Bob

[Bill Alexander]

Hello Bob, Thanks. He is actually south-west.
Will keep your advice and invitation in mind and pass it on. (But you are about 400k the other way.)

[Bob Carriere]

What's a few KM once you get rolling.

There is a guy building a 2B1 box from scratch in the London area..... your Dad could get in touch with him.... it's all in networking.

Any new pictures /progress on the Furd F15a..?

Bob

[Grant Bowker]

Originally Posted by Bill Alexander

Thanks. To rephrase my question, was there a steel hatch cover, or only a canvas one?

The standard for the Cab 13 was a canvas cover. I believe I have seen a photo of a steel cover but also believe it was a field modification.

Link to a thread on possible hard cover for the hip ring. http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...ighlight=cover

[Bill Alexander]

That is helpful Grant. I will pass the info along. Bob, your assistance / advice is welcome. I will put up images etc as the work progresses and update as it comes along.
Thanks.

[Bob Carriere]

Bottom line Bill with an original ring to copy making a repro is quite feasible.


The steel can be heated curved/rolled cold may require a few wooden jigs and some basic welding.

As in all project measure 3 times cut once and leave enough to be able to grind it down to a perfect fit.


The wooden part of the ring is probably the most time consuming but if one decides to build it in glued segemnts instead of the labourious steam bent process again within reach of most hobbiest.

The canvas pads ( all 3 ) are not complicated to fabricate using modern foam rubber padding ........ cutting the tails off horses to make the padding original is not popular with local farmers.

Hang in there.

Bob

[Bill Alexander]

Thanks Bob, I will print off this information. Dad learned his mechanic trade in the army and his hobby is restoring antique vehicles. (Only Fords are allowed to darken his laneway, hence the F15). He has the knowledge and skills to fabricate, and I can pass the advice on to him.

[Bill Alexander]

Parts truck arrived last week.



Follow up question on turret shapes. Were round turret rings Chev, and the rectangular turret hatch Ford?

[Jim Burrill]

My C-15A had a square hatch int he 13 cab. I think it was original to the vehicle.

I also had a 42 HUP project vehicle (that i Sold on to a Canadian friend of mine in Virginia) and it also had the square hatch.

[cletrac (RIP)]

The round hatch came out in late 44 or so and was not a Ford vs Chev thing. Just production dates.

[Bill Alexander]

Thanks David. I will pass that on.
Dad had a look a the engine in the original truck and I think he told me the numbers on it suggest a rebuild.

[Bob Carriere]

I still firmly beleive you can't do one truck with out a few more for spares.

Hope your Dad has a nice large backyard and understanding neighbours

I see a nice rad expension tank sitting in there.

Keep us posted of the progress.

Bob C

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by Phil Waterman

I think a clearer statement could be made, canvas hatch covers were used in North Africa on some Patter 11 and 12.

I've reviewed many of the photos of North Africa that have been posted over the years on MLU and I can not find a sample, I do distinctly remember having seen a photo of improvised hatches with a canvas cover.

That would be the thread Canvas-covered square roof hatch. These were retrofitted in North Africa, any sort of closed cab truck could be subjected to the treatment, including Cab 11 and Cab 12 CMPs which did not have a factory-fitted hatch.

But back to Bills original question concerning the Round Hatch on Pattern 13, does any body know when that was introduced?

The round hatch was a 1944/1945 production feature, the square one was fitted to most Cab 13's, but not all - what is hardly known is that the "cab with hatched roof was optional on all models"

HTH,
Hanno


Source: Interesting pic of CMP

[cletrac (RIP)]

Not all cab 13s had roof hatches. I have a 1945 C60 cab with no hole in the roof.
On that other thread Hanno pointed out, the 2A1 and 2B1 bodies had the holes in the box for the division boards. The Motley seats also used those hokes to bolt them in place.

[Bill Alexander]

The last parts truck also resulted in acquiring a square hatch.


Is this number researchable?

[Bob Carriere]

...fit that square hatch in the round hole...?


...and that last time I saw that number.... the guy was doing 10 to 20 in Kingston.


On a more serious note...... the inside rib reinforcement for the roof should be different for the round hole than the square hatch. You may be able to salvage some of the ribbing inside the back wall of the cab to repro the inside of the roof reinforcement.

Should keep your Dad busy for a while.

Bob C

[Bill Alexander]

Another (better) parts truck has been acquired. In fact this one is likely going to be the base for the restoration.

[Bill Alexander]

If I understand this correctly, there should be data plates on the vehicles?

[Bob Carriere]

You cannot restore a truck without a few spare parts truck....

He has got the bug ........ tell your Mom to lock him up ......

Cheers

Bob