Morris Y Van find

[Lang]

Gordon,

I certainly would look at wheels from anywhere. 16" are readily available but 18"?

Richard,

Trying to track down the Australian Morris Y owner, If his details are correct it puts the whole story from my owner in doubt as the dates can't be reconciled.

Lang

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Lang

Richard,

Trying to track down the Australian Morris Y owner,

Lang

Lang,
Here is the owners email from my second link, imoretonAToptusnet.com.au ( remove AT and insert @)

[Mike Cecil]

Lang,

Thanks for the data, but I have been unable to equate it with the very limited references I have to Morris vans in military service in Australia. Nevertheless, the records show some interesting things in the light of your find, and the posts above.

The USAFIA returned a Morris 'Light English Utility' in Sydney for disposal by the CDC in late 1944. It had 17,660 miles on the clock. US Army registration number was USA-U-27167. No engine or chassis number given.

The RAN list three possibles, all listed as still in service in the post-war period (late 1940s). They were operated from HMAS Harmon and the Belconnen Wireless Station, both near Canberra (The big wireless station @ Belconnen was for all international government messaging during and post-war. Now defunct and last I heard, awaiting dismantling of the huge tower). RAN registrations were:

RAN 58259 ... eng number 65932)
RAN 58258 ... eng number 66080) These appear to be in a wartime group.
RAN 60191 ... eng number NPSC14042. This appears to be post-war: it's in a group that includes Holdens, etc.

The first two, by coincidence, are described as 'Utilivans' which now means a lot more to me than when I first saw the term, thanks to these posts. The last is described as a 'Van'. The first two engine numbers are interesting in the light of yours (70203) which might indicate the RAN ones were earlier production? - doubtless our English friends with greater knowledge of Morris vehicle engine numbers can comment on that.

IF the RAN ones were wartime, they would have been painted in KG3 as per the camouflage regulations, but possibly re-painted post war in either dark blue or seagrey. If similar vehicles had been disposed of by the RAN at war's end, then most likely in KG3 paint.

HOWEVER, the RAN had an alarming propensity to re-issue registrations and migrate the plates to different vehicles once the original was disposed of. So, while it appears that these (above) are wartime registrations, this is not certain. Maybe the approx. production year can be ascertained from the engine numbers? Also, I don't have anywhere near a complete list of RAN registrations, so they may have had others I have not found a record of as yet (and which were disposed of at war's end?).

Something else to consider - and this is just theorizing - I would expect that, if the Morris is wartime, then its production year should be pre-1942, rather than 1942 or later, as imports from the UK were restricted during the 1940-41 period (but still possible to import commercial type goods), then severely restricted from late 1941 onwards, with virtually no civilian MVs imported until the end of the war. I cannot see a few Morris vans being high on the governments import agenda during the 1942-1945 period, especially when there was an over-abundance of modified conventional vehicles already 'on the books'.

The other (remote?) possibility is that these were Refugee Cargo, arriving in Oz in late 41/early 42, having been diverted while en route to English forces in Malaya, etc. They would have to be pre-42 build to be considered for that scenario.

Hope this helps.

Mike C

[Lang]

Mike,

Thanks for all that info. These are very interesting vehicles. Maybe a fourth possibility would be imported with returning Middle East vehicles? There were certainly some orphans came back with that lot and there were hundreds of small non-tactical vehicles running around Cairo.

It would appear in all likelyhood, although production of these ran from 1939 that my vehicle is post war. I have had a good look at it and the paint is certainly military and done right up under dash and tight corners which is usually not the case with a respray - suppose there were thousands of gallons of excess army paint sold after the war so it would have been available. Why would anyone paint their new? car army green just after the war?

The investigation proceeds!

Lang

[Mike Cecil]

Lang,

Yes, I had considered the possibility of ex-Middle East, but a quick look through the data didn't show any evidence of such vehicles, so I more or less dismissed it as a credible source (they were mostly tactical trucks, tractors, etc)

One I hadn't considered, however, was the build-up of Brit forces in Australia in 1945, preparatory to the invasion of Japan. Some logistics people were here, and had commenced to organize for an influx of more Brit personnel when the bomb got dropped and it was all over. Maybe this is a 'leave behind' from them?

I'll be interested to know from our English friends if and how the engine numbers line up with production dates.

Mike C

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Lang

It would appear in all likelyhood, although production of these ran from 1939 that my vehicle is post war. I have had a good look at it and the paint is certainly military and done right up under dash and tight corners which is usually not the case with a respray - suppose there were thousands of gallons of excess army paint sold after the war so it would have been available. Why would anyone paint their new? car army green just after the war?

The investigation proceeds!

Lang,
In an old Lockheed brake catalogue it lists as follows;
12/4, 8/10cwt Van 1935
12hp, Series II, 10cwt Van, 1935-39
12hp, Van, Series Y, 10cwt, 1944
12hp, Van, Series Y, 10cwt, ARP, 1940

from this and other references I have found it looks like they were not known a Y types until in the 40's and your chassis plate has it as a 12/4 so looks to be prewar.

[Lang]

Richard,

The owner was always insistent it was 1936 but this does not sit well with me.

I wonder if the factory always designated the whole series 12/4 on the plates and the various model designations were marketing department inventions?

I am awaiting an original manual which has on the cover Morris 10cwt, Series "Y" to see if there is reference to 12/4.

Have a look at this info on the Morris 12/4. The mystery deepens! The 12/4 cars were only side valve until 1937. Would a van, not starting production until 1939 have been afflicted with a sidevalve from the past when everything coming down the line had overhead valve engines?

http://www.iamo.org.uk/Models/Twelve...ies.htm#engine

As a spoiler I have just found a Fordson E83 which we know was certainly in service but the lesser power (1,100cc) and atrocious top speed of 40mph knocks it out for any Normandy trip. The Morris advertising may actually be correct about speed and from various sources 12/4 is rated at 72mph top speed with its 1,500cc motor - not many small cars of that era could do any better than that.

Lang

[Richard Farrant]

Originally Posted by Lang

The Morris advertising is actually correct about speed and from various sources it is rated at 72mph top speed with its 1,500cc motor - not many small cars of that era could do any better than that.

Lang

Lang,
The performance of the Morris surprises me, not so bad a choice after all. Those Ford E83W were still common in the early 60's and when I went to school, the meals were brought across from a nearby school kitchen by a local garage under contract. They had a open back Ford, and often a couple of extra people would be with it to push start it, always a scene of amusement!