Ford Blitz Restoration/Rebuild

[Private_collector]

This afternoon I completed a 4 hour round trip to retrieve a large square plastic container, which I intend to use for stripping rust and other contaminants off ferous metal parts, in conjunction with caustic soda. The plastic 'cube' container is one of those which are often seen on heavy haulage vehicles. It sits in a metal cage framework designed to allow stackability and a degree of strength. I believe the approximate volume, when full, would be somewhere in the vicinity of 1000L........ish. While I certainly won't be filling the entire container, I want to have sufficient volume to immerse something the size of a gearbox case.
Some time ago, I was very impressed with what I could achieve when using a bath of caustic soda and electrolosis (or is it electrolysis?). I want to incorporate an electric charge in the use of the newly acquired tank, but have "LMF" when it comes to having a battery charger running when I am not able to closely monitor it myself. In fact, as we run almost solely off a stand-alone solar electric system, I wouldn't be comfortable with that scenario at all.

So here's my query; I have been giving thought to a somewhat unusual idea. We run the house on a solar collection system, so why not power the cleaning tank with a similar principal? Now, I don't know very much about solar panels, so I can't even be sure if the amperage would be sufficient. A supply of 2.5 to 3 amps should do, at least that was the current I used when playing with the battery charger all those months ago. Any higher amperage and the charger would cycle off & on, falsely detecting a high current return to the unit.

Does anyone have sufficient knowledge to offer some guidance as to whether this idea has legs or should be forgotten about?

All assistance appreciated,

[Lynn Eades]

1ml. is a gram, is a cc., when it comes to water (sg =1.0). so....
100mm x 100mm x 100mm is equal to 1 litre.......
which leads on to;
1 metre x 1 metre x 1 metre is equal to 1000 litres which is equal to 1 ton of water. Example 8700 litres is 8.7 metric tons...... Don't you just love metrics!..(sometimes anyway)
Or theres......
1 gallon of water equals 10 lb, and there are 6 1/4 gallons to the cubic foot...... etc.

Why cant you use a small solar panel?. More panel = more voltage = more hydrogen = bigger bang! I guess you would want a switch well away from the tank.
Just set it up at the other end of the paddock, from the house. (or shed at least) Be careful!!
I am still enjoying your thread (as it seems, are many others) keep it going.

You should be able to check out solar panels on the net. This country is full of them.

[Private_collector]

Well bugger me! I just noticed you're here in gods own country, Lynn. How long have you been here? A fellow by the name of Paul , who has the HotRod shop in Gympie, tells me he knows you. Met you some time ago apparently.

Now that you're not that far, pop up here and have a look for yourself. Can't be more than a few thousand kilometres. Bet you know what that is in chains, leagues, furlows or yards! Sounds like I wasn't too far off with the volume of that tank though.

Since I posted the previous thread, I went looking at solar panels on ebay. Solar is the way I will go, without a doubt. The tank comes to me with a nice lid to keep curious animals out, and even has a couple of metal rods that sit across the top to hang bits (and the accompanying metal electrode) from. I'll get it off the trailer tomorrow, and take a couple of photos.

About solar panels. I will be needing something in the vicinityof 40W, which will produce roughly the amperage I want, to allow a nice slow process, devoid of harmful gas buildup or, hopefully, explosions. The tank will most certainly be a looooong way from the house or fire pile. If I choose wisely, the selected solar panel should be able to just run all through the day, without supervision, and an inspection in evening will quickly tell me if it runs another days worth, or if the job has been done!

I'm quite excited about this project, and will be deciding on the ideal location for the tank tomorrow. That said, the priority for the day will be getting color on the rear axle U bolts, and the tie-rod as well. With those bits painted, it's time to reassemble the front axle and steering. I left the front diff cluster with a local engineering co. yesterday, for them to remove the carrier bearings. Those were impossible for me to cleanly remove at home, and too big for Gympie Bearing Service to fit in their press. I got that back this afternoon, job well done. I now have everything I need (bar a few new bolts) to finish that assembly. Only need to put in the effort now. I'm on annual leave this week, so unless I have to go on another parts run later this week, I should at least make a serious dent in the reassembly.

[David Dunlop]

Since hydrogen is a light gas and your container has a lid, could you not cut a couple of three inch holes in the top, one to either end and cover then with some nylon or fibreglass screening to vent the gas?

In a pinch, a small blower motor like those used to cool computer boxes could be safely added to exhaust from one opening.

Once you are all set up, do you think the locals will suspect you are making your own alcohol?

David

[Private_collector]

Yeah David, i'll need to make some sort of way to get rid of gas buildup. Haven't given any thought yet to how this will happen, but would prefer something that does not require electricity. There won't be power available, apart from solar. I have a spare rotary vent somewhere here that is meant to go on a roof and vent heat & moisture. That would work well.

I'm lucky to live rural and have a decent size piece of land, so very few neighbours to ponder exactly what the tank is for. Some years ago we had a couple of serial killers here in Australia that were putting the victims bodies into plastic drums filled with an acid, in an attempt to disolve the remains. I hope no one thinks my tank is for the same thing!

[Private_collector]

My NOS valves arrived today.
NOS Set x16 Valves 1.jpg NOS Set x16 Valves 2.jpg
So did the new main bearings.
NOS Main Bearing Set 002thou undersize crank.jpg
Here are the recently arrived con rod bearings, STD size.
NOS Con-Rod Bearing Set STD size.jpg
Couldn't resist making the first new full valve set. Only another 15 to go.
First new valvetrain.jpg
Normally I would do this inside in the evening, but if I start removing all the protective mucus from the valves on the loungeroom floor, I won't be very popular. My wife can't stand the smell of turpentine, nor does she like the cosmoline smell. Guess i'm waiting until tomorrow then.

[Private_collector]

Yesterday I took some tools (no one you'd know ) and bought a spare front axle, as a 'just in case' for the future. A reasonable buy at $100.
Spare Front End 300513 1.jpg Spare Front End 300513 2.jpg
It was virtually unmolested, but has had replacement brake hoses at some time.
Unfortunately it doesn't have the lifting flanges that I wanted, so I continue the search for those.

Incidentally, One of the hubs was stuck fast to the brake shoes, and had to be removed for a cleanup before I could roll it to it's resting place. When I removed the hub cap I found that this axle has the same system of locking hub nuts as Phil showed in his earlier photos. That being; Twin hub nuts with a double layer of lock ring between, and a keyed washer installed before the nuts. There is also holes through the thread for a cotter pin and castle nut, so I suppose it could use that method as well.

[Tim Lovelock]

Originally Posted by Private_collector

This afternoon I completed a 4 hour round trip to retrieve a large square plastic container, which I intend to use for stripping rust and other contaminants off ferous metal parts, in conjunction with caustic soda. The plastic 'cube' container is one of those which are often seen on heavy haulage vehicles. It sits in a metal cage framework designed to allow stackability and a degree of strength. I believe the approximate volume, when full, would be somewhere in the vicinity of 1000L........ish. While I certainly won't be filling the entire container, I want to have sufficient volume to immerse something the size of a gearbox case.
Some time ago, I was very impressed with what I could achieve when using a bath of caustic soda and electrolosis (or is it electrolysis?). I want to incorporate an electric charge in the use of the newly acquired tank, but have "LMF" when it comes to having a battery charger running when I am not able to closely monitor it myself. In fact, as we run almost solely off a stand-alone solar electric system, I wouldn't be comfortable with that scenario at all.

So here's my query; I have been giving thought to a somewhat unusual idea. We run the house on a solar collection system, so why not power the cleaning tank with a similar principal? Now, I don't know very much about solar panels, so I can't even be sure if the amperage would be sufficient. A supply of 2.5 to 3 amps should do, at least that was the current I used when playing with the battery charger all those months ago. Any higher amperage and the charger would cycle off & on, falsely detecting a high current return to the unit.

Does anyone have sufficient knowledge to offer some guidance as to whether this idea has legs or should be forgotten about?

All assistance appreciated,

Hi Tony, I love the method of electrolysis to remove rust etc. I guess as you may have discovered it is a very quick method with some items. I've cleaned up tools in as little as 1/2 an hour.
The way I did it was to connect a car battery to the item and water +/- etc. then connect the charger to the battery.
So would connecting a solar panel to a battery do the same as the charger in keeping power up to the battery.
But I'm not an electrician or auto elec, I discovered electrolysis on the Internet. I'm sure there are wiser heads out there that could answer your enquiry.
Cheers Tim

[Private_collector]

G'day Tim,

If the battery were a deep cycle type, I could probably do that. A standard car or truck battery wouldn't last very long with repeated drainings. I'm wanting to avoid any form of current storage. If I don't have one, it can't give me problems. Am hoping to call into the local battery & solar shop tomorrow for a bit of information.

I know that by using only a PV panel I won't get much happening through the night, but that suits me fine, it'll start again the next morning.

With the ridiculous changes to electricity charges about to kill off (or badly wound) the solar energy industry, it shouldnt be too hard to find a relatively inexpensive and suitable panel for this project.

The only presently unresolved issue is the eventual disposal of used caustic soda. There's always local creeks or sports grounds I suppose!

[Lynn Eades]

Tony, you are certainly entertaining, with the grass in kalgoorlie, the caustic etc.

[Bob Moseley (RIP)]

Hi guys - the medium to use in the solution is washing soda not caustic soda. I posted a full discussion on this subject in 2003 and if you search MLU under the keywords "electrolysis derusting" you will find the full details. This post was what started the Restoration Forum.

Bob

[Private_collector]

Bob is right, in a fashion. A large number of sources advise use of washing soda over caustic, for amateur usage (like me!), as it is not such an aggressive proces, nor does it pose the same environmental risks of exposure or disposal. Washing soda can be easily disposed of and is not harmful to environment. On a small scale, or where speed is preferred, caustic soda will rip the crud off faster (so say sources that have used both methods), but disposal and exposure do present a problem in large volume. The disposal is an issue for me. I don't have anywhere to pour hundreds of litres of contaminated material, whereas washing soda does little harm if dispersed onto bare ground. In my case, I would need to run a pipe or hose of roughly 40m length, so that disposal occurs behind my farm dam, not straight into it!

All those concerns aside, my experience with caustic soda and a 2.5 to 3 amp charge, has produced dramatic results in a short period of time. I don't expect washing soda is as timely under the same circumstances. With the volume of tank, and manner of process I will be using, speed (or possibly better described as aggression) is of no great concern, provided I can start one weekend and remove, finished, the next. So the washing soda does have some advantages, and caustic soda has others, while acknowledging the negatives.

With regards to Washing Soda for electrolysis, instead of caustic soda, the following sites give straight forward information on setup of equipment and theory involed. There are slight contradictions between the two sources, but I suspect these are due to respective results of the authors.

http://www.robotroom.com/Rust-Removal.html There are a number of pages to the article.

http://antique-engines.com/electrol.asp This one is quite short and to the point. It also speaks about making washing soda from baking soda.

After a wider search, I found great discrepancies in the amperage suggested. Some say 2 amps sufficient, some 5 to 6, some much higher, and one even talks about using the power source of an arc welder! Ouch. The power bill would be huge.

Having never bouht washing soda, I looked into availability. From what has been written by others searching, there seems to be a theme. The larger grocery stores like Woolworths & Coles have apparently cut this line, while the small independent stores like IGA may still carry it. Also, the soda in powder form s recommended over soda crystals. It's said to be quicker to disolve.

If all this caustic VS washing soda, low VS high amps, 'do this' VS 'do that' gets a little tiresome.......me too. I guess the only way to see which one is best results, and lets face it, that's what is important to me, is to do trials on both chemical types and at various amperage. It'll be quite fun to do such experiments. Takes me back to my school days, in science class. Hopefully this time nothing catches fire! I'm keen to give the alternative a trial. At least I know it won't eat my lungs away! Does anyone know what the engine cleaning guys use?
If washing soda shows to be anywhere near as good as caustic, it'll work for me, because I plan to run the process over such a long period of time. I only hope that oxidising overnight doesn't counteract the de-rusting benefits during the day (solar panel, remember).

I'll see if I can find some washing soda next week. Lets see how it goes.

Good on ya, Bob!

Lastly, have a look at this impressive setup, by one industrious fellow.
pic2.jpeg
I like this very much. Good way to ensure 'line of sight' reaction!

Added 2040hrs: This is a very comprehensive article to read. Highly recommended http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/andyspatch/rust.htm

[Lynn Eades]

Tony, this was probably covered in Bob's thread, When a process like this is undertaken, a neutralizing process is required. When I bought phosphoric (muriatic) acid, (to clean my engine block out) the chemical company put " inhibitors" in the acid so that only the rust was attacked, and not the cast iron. Is it the same here? Is there a "neutralizing" process required here?