Fuel tanks

[kevin powles]

Originally Posted by Andrew Rowe

Just a thought... how come you guys don't make your tanks from stainless steel?,then you do not have to coat the in sides with any thing.
I have found there is not much cost difference in the price of the material , and you can not tell the difference when painted, and you don't have problems with rusting from condensation because of half fulling tanks. There is also the problems from rust when you solder , if you don't neualize the acid flux.
I believe the original tanks used a tin coated steel , that made soldering fittings really easy , and also stop the internal rust.. just my thoughts.

Hi andrew, agree with you 100%, been saying that all along.

Kevin.

[Phil Waterman]

Hi Guys

I agree with you about making a replacement tank out of stainless, but I just don't know how to weld stainless. Always seem to have the wrong type or the wrong wire, or wrong gas.

Even if I solve those problems not sure how to attach the filler necks.

Now as to were the original tanks coated, on my Chevy CMPs 41 no, 42 yes but it looks like regular steel but has no rust in the tank or outside. 45 HUP the tanks had been really coated in what looks like tin/lead. Wonder if the raw tanks were dipped after being welded and then the filler neck and other fittings soldered on last.

As to sealants the problem as I see it, is we just keep our vehicles to long, good sealant for current gasoline may dissolve completely in the gas of 10 years from now. There is a big stink in the US right now over the introduction of E15 or 15% ethanol. The proponents of it say there is no problem as long as older cars were built after 2001.

Cheers Phil

[Lynn Eades]

Hi. Andrew is correct. Most fuel tanks were made from tin plate ie. a piece of panel steel with a thin layer of tinning (soldier) on its surfaces. Any one ever looked at how much was on old landrover tanks.
later they were galvanized, then anodized (zinc) Now, I guess they are made of poly#%*@$

[Bob Carriere]

Hi Phil

Linde gas ( formerly BOC ) now sells a SS wire for gas welding..... a large roll is around $180. and I am not sure what type of welding gas mixture would be required.

All I know from the old stick welder days, if you welded with SS rods and made a mistake, you needed a stone to grind down the SS to make corrections.

Why couldn't we have a regular steel tank with a bladder inside like a race car......? Or a poly gas tank retro fitted inside the tool box.....? Not original but if it keeps then rolling so be it.

Bottom line CMP gas tanks were not intended to last 70+ years and even if we reproduce them faithfully, their life span will be limited no matter what.

I have lined an old Allis Chalmers gas tank about 10 years ago.... and it had pin holes.... she is still serving me well now that I have repaired the engine.
All I used was a POR kit and followed the cleaning process to the letter. Maybe the main difference is that I keep buying Hi-test gasoline from the farm distributor which claims it has no ethanol added..... a few cents more per litre but in limited quantity no a major expense.

I procured a decent early cab 11 CMP fuel tank a few weeks ago with half inch varnish deposit in the bottom..... like a porous bubbly tar like varnish brittle residue..... not sure how to remove it as it covers baffles and will not chip off. I did a test using a pint of Vinyl solvent made of toluene, M.E.K. and acetone..... it desolved big deposit chunks in a beaker in about 30 minutes.....stinks of old gas and probably toxic as H***...... the only problem is I would need about 3 gallons to degum that tank....... any safer solution to recommend...?

Bob C.

[Lynn Eades]

Bob, Is it worth talking to the POR15 people. I imagine they will keep it up to date,( or have to withdraw it from the market) They sell it in lots of countries? (a guess)
Different oil companies have different brews that make up the fuel (lots of aromatics) so wouldn't they (POR15 people) have to cater to that?
The stuff must add up to a "rubber "bladder akin to a fuel cell.
BTW, I have never used it, but have seen it recently used in carrier tanks.

Are you still happy with it Lew?

[maple_leaf_eh]

One fellow told me how he recovered a scaley gas tank by throwing in a handful of sharp edged steel pieces and some chain links. Then he rolled and shook the tank until he was happy the crud had been broken free.

If your gelled fuel has an edge, what about attacking it with a pressure washer? Find the edge and it might come off it slabs. I think you are right about the toxicity. Try to keep the particles from washing into the surface creeks. The good people in Montreal will thank you for not polluting their water supply - much more.

[Paul Dutton]

POR15 is widely used AND recommended over here in the classic car fraternity. I have never used it on my cars but still being advertised in the magazines! We are now in the process of adding 10% Ethanol to our fuel here so we will see in the future! They have done all the tests on classic engines and parts to see compatability levels and all seems ok-ish. There is still a large opposition to it, but as usual our glorious inbred government doesnt really care or listen !

[shaun]

If there is a thick brown tar in the tank be careful , it's the old lead residue from the fuel. It stinks, and highly toxic (lead poisoning ) at best it will give you a stinking head ache . Fresh fuel does not shift it , nor does thinners - the only stuff I found that dissolves it is brake fluid . But remember wear gloves, mask etc . It is really nasty stuff.

[Ben]

The traditional fabrication company that made the tanks suggested the mild steel, they made the tanks 100% accurately to the original, as are the fittings. Mild steel was cheaper and generally easier to work and weld. I spoke to a company about making them in stainless and their comment was that the tooling required and the work was substantially more (due to material work hardening and the post completion process to make the completed tank as hard as steel) to get the 100% accurate appearance. Seeing as nearly all the buyers of the tanks were primarily concerned with the cost, turning round and increasing it dramaitically didn't seem worth while. I'm no steel worker so I can only take their advice.

If someone wants to make themselves a stainless tank I'm happy to supply the fittings.

I can't imagine that anyone here will see their new steel tank dissolve away in front of them even if they're not treated. I've got an original one here that still holds fuel and its sat outside for 70+ years

There are also options of bladders to run inside or instead of the steel tank but again this is an added cost. I use them at work and they are manufactured locally by a company called ATL. The cost of one of their custom tanks would buy you a fairly substantial chunk of a carrier.

Kevin, if you weren't happy with the mild steel tanks you shouldn't have bought two, you could have had stainless ones made yourself!

We are (I think) trying to restore and preserve these vehicles for the future. In my opinion making them as close to the original (safely) as possible is the goal. Yes stainless tanks would be ultimately a better option but a more expensive one. I could have made them in aluminium, after painting you wouldn't have been able to tell either. Where do you draw the line?

Ben