Penguin Mkll

[David Herbert]

Rob,

What a great vehicle, I had always wondered what happened to the Armoured Snowmobiles. Do you have the tracks for it or will you be making them?

The primary WW2 use of Cadillac V8s was Stuart tanks (series 42) and Chaffee and LVT3 (series 44). I believe that the core engine is identical but the 44s have a drive shaft with universal joints threaded through under the inlet manifold. This is to drive the fans on a chaffee. The LVT3 inherrited this arrangement and I would expect that the Armoured Snowmobile / Penguin did too. The Hydramatic gearbox used in Stuart had a reverse gear but the ones used in Chaffee and I believe LVT3 did not have a reverse gear, this was done in the 2f + 2r transfer box. This engine was also used in infantry landing craft but presumably marineised to some degree. One of the nice things with these engines is that the exhaust manifold was black vitreous enameled and bolted on with stainless bolts - Cadillac had their standards to uphold !

I love the "spot the racoon" side to this thread, what happened to the photo of them looking out of the road drain? From a British perspective they are just cute!

Really looking forward to the you being able to get into the restoration of this machine and posting more photos - thanks for going public.

David

[rob love]

The tracks are coming in the next day or two.

Thanks for the explanation of the Cadillac powerplants. I find that on a new project like this, it is best to let it sit a year or two while parts are found and knowledge is gained. It saves having to un-do well-intentioned but misguided restoration efforts.

One of the few pieces of actual armour that remains is the front glacis plate. It bears the same chisel marks as the Bren carrier armour.

Tell you what, check out and secure that engine and I will give you 10....no, make that twenty racoons. You can release them and they will quickly populate all of the UK with cuteness. Your cat food companies will love you for this....they have insatiable appetites.

No idea why Micheal's raccoon posting is gone. But just for you David, here is the source: http://thechive.com/2008/12/06/world...ons-40-photos/

[chris vickery]

The engine you have posted here Rob as being on the wrong side of the pond may be obtainale if you are patient and look for the right guys.
I know there are others here on the Forum that send a container every once in a while over to Canada from the UK.
Getting your hands on what you need, even if it has to sit in storage at someones place in the UK is not so bad, especialy if you have time to wait.
My e-halftrack fenders came over that way from Holland. I think they saw more miles over a couple years, hitching rides from place to place until they ended up over here finally.

[Michael R.]

"Is that a racoon's face just above the track, below the back of the red cross?"
Hmmmmmm .... I thought so too.

[gordon]

What you need is someone who is 30 miles from Edinburgh, interested in snow stuff, and has somewhere to store it.

Oh wait, that would be me ...

Let me know if you want to buy it and just get the seller to store it or me to hang on it it till you can arrange shipping. I don't have heavy lifting facilities, but I do have storage and I'm sure I could borrow a trailer or empty one of mine.

I can even throw in the two chairs and sleeping bag that Sean left here last time he was at Beltring.

Erm ... let me know fairly sharpish in case he takes an offer on it, especially if you are NOT interested.

Gordon(at)Dodge.org.uk

[Kirk Armitage]

Very nice machine Rob ! Nice to see one of Mr Bombardier's snow machines saved. Always wondered what size of cross tube each set of boggies pivot on,must be pretty stout as they are not supported by an outer rail like the muskeg,which came later. Wheel bearings were the small type,and the axle stubs are pretty easy to bend ,they were upgraded to larger bearings and axles around 1960 on his other designs.
Kirk Armitage

[rob love]

Gordon
I have sent you a PM about that engine. If all the wheels and gears fall into place, it might just be doable. What a great site to have guys all over the world with similar interests and willing to help each other out.

Micheal: I think you had better get some more hobbies. Way too much time on your hands. I didn't actually even notice the racoon face when you emailed me that photo. I forwarded it to Derk and he mentioned it while we were on the phone. I think I was just mesmerized looking at that DND number on the side. Unbelievable.

I was doing a little math with Derk, and by the time I secure that engine and get it here, then buy the 18 tires to re-rubber this thing (that included 2 spares for which I must find rims yet) then buy new rubber banding for the track, then .......

So I have decided not to do anymore math, but just tackle the issues one at a time.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

Originally Posted by David Herbert

The primary WW2 use of Cadillac V8s was Stuart tanks (series 42) and Chaffee and LVT3 (series 44). I believe that the core engine is identical but the 44s have a drive shaft with universal joints threaded through under the inlet manifold. This is to drive the fans on a chaffee. The LVT3 inherrited this arrangement and I would expect that the Armoured Snowmobile / Penguin did too. The Hydramatic gearbox used in Stuart had a reverse gear but the ones used in Chaffee and I believe LVT3 did not have a reverse gear, this was done in the 2f + 2r transfer box. This engine was also used in infantry landing craft but presumably marineised to some degree. One of the nice things with these engines is that the exhaust manifold was black vitreous enameled and bolted on with stainless bolts - Cadillac had their standards to uphold !

Some great info on the hydrmatic gearbox over on this Detroit Transmission (Hydra-Matic) Division of General Motors Corporation in World War Two / WWII webpage

[David Dunlop]

Just trying to wrap my head around Penguin production.

Various sources indicate Canada only ever retained 11 original Armoured Snowmobiles. Of these, the majority seem to have been converted to Penguins by Operation Muskox. Films show at least one surviving original vehicle in that original exercise.

Of the known surviving Penguins in Canada, I cannot recall one that does not show original lower front armour. Logic would state there should only be 11 such survivors. If there are more than that, where did the hulls come from that were used for conversion to Penguins?

If Penguins were built from scratch, did they simply adapt original plans, incorporating new built, modified lower hulls?

Would any of the known surviving Penguins show signs of armour plate having been cut down/modified? If so, in theory, these should be part of the original 11 inventory, should they not?

One other thought. If Penguins were built on new designed lower hulls, would they have bothered utilizing armour plate?

David

[Jason Ginn]

This pic was posted on the FB CF-100 group today but it I had to bring it over here because of all the cool vehicles in the shot. Notice in the back is a Penguin and a Bombardier in white!

[rob love]

Quite the cross section of stuff. I see L19 Cessna no702, a M101 4/3 ton trailer, and some commercial panel trucks that appear to be of slightly earlier vintage than those two.

The history on 702 shows one entry that may date the photo:

To Central Experimental and Proving Establishment at RCAF Station Namao, Alberta from 24 July 1957, for cold weather trials.

That would fit in with the timeline on the M101 trailers. The cargo truck in the background looks like a M135.

[Hanno Spoelstra]

The CWM has a Penguin Mk III in their collection. It seems it is missing its tracks:

19970113-018.jpg
https://www.warmuseum.ca/collections/artifact/1317602/

[Ed Storey]

It could either be a Penguin Mk 2 or a Mk 3 as externally both vehicles look the same.