help with engine swap to 8BA engine

[Jason Linders]

Yes that seems to always happen to me , i settle then one turns up and for better money

[Jason Linders]

So the rails are the same will i have to drill anymore holes for anything else like the fuel tank brakets if i go down the path of the F15 chassis and are we sure its the same chassis rails all i need really are the rails so i will be removing all my gearbox members and stuff and just replacing the rails if it works.

[Jason Linders]

Can anyone tell me if they are the same rails , if i have to go down this path i will remove my rails and replace them and keep my FGT centre cross members

[Grant Bowker]

According to the parts books (not confirmed by actual observation) each of FGT and F15A had several different frame assemblies with corresponding frame rails. The differences in these seem to have been in mounting holes for different components. Ford or Delco shock absorbers, different steering gears, different winch fairleads/rollers, early and late cab.
Although the changes in F15A and FGT frames seem to parallel each other (except winches are FGT only in the 101.25" WB frames) there are separate part numbers for the FGT and F15A frame assemblies and rails. The difference in the numbers is the prefix designating the vehicle model C011WQF for F15A and C011QF for FGT.
In general, the prefix seems to reflect the first vehicle to use a given part and any other vehicles that use the same part reference the part using the original prefix. For example there are many parts in both the F15A and FGT lists that are prefixed C01QF (either F30 or F60S).
Based on the above (again - not confirmed by actual observation) my opinion is that there is some difference between the frame rails used on F15As and FGTs.
Now for speculation - you may be able to use FGT rails on a F15A without much change (possibly adjustments for mounting a full cab as opposed to FGT body) and F15A rails on a FGT (probably with opposite adjustments for body/cab and added holes needed for FGT use to mount the winch and other equipment).
It might be effective to find/borrow one of each frame, stack them on top of each other, photograph this and hand it to several of your knowledgable friends and ask them to play spot-the-differences. Even better to do this with both side views, top, bottom, front and back as well.

[cletrac (RIP)]

I think the gun tractors have extra gussets from frame rail to crossmember so there'd be extra holes drilled. No big deal.

[Jason Linders]

Thanks for that guys, just another question would F15 rail be the same as F15A rail just the rails i can swap every cross member if nee be thats no big deal but i think my rails are just way to passed fixing, i have a mate that thinks he can fix them but how far do you go before its just not worth it and
the back from the rear spring hanger is just too smashed

[Jason Linders]

Here is some pics of the rear and the cracks in the rails

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

In general, the prefix seems to reflect the first vehicle to use a given part......It might be effective to find/borrow one of each frame, stack them on top of each other, photograph this and hand it to several of your knowledgable friends and ask them to play spot-the-differences.

No need Grant, I have 3 FGT chassis and 4 F15A chassis in my backyard, and I've spent innumerable hours poring over them looking for differences! All I can find on the siderails is an extra set of holes for the fuel tank brackets, which on forensic examination prove to be drilled rather than stamped, with lines scored from the adjacent stamped hole set for accurate measurement. Evidently this was necessary to fit the running boards unique to Australian pattern FGTs.

All other differences relate to additional and/or relocated crossmembers and fishplates, which I've catalogued in post #39 here:

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...?t=1929&page=2


I wonder if the two different siderail prefixes arise from early parts before the alternative rivet holes were included to simplify production. Also of course there are differences between Cab 12 and Cab 13 side rails, and in the case of Cab 12 chassis I believe the FAT preceded the F15A in development.

[Jason Linders]

All good got the wheel base

F60S - 115IN WHEEL BASE
F60L - 158IN WHEEL BASE
FGT - 101.25IN

[Tony Wheeler]

Slight correction Jason, the F60S is 134 1/4". Not that it makes any difference in this case! Ultimately it will depend on what's available, and don't forget it's only the rear section you're concerned with, as you'll be reusing your FGT front section.

[Jason Linders]

F60L I would be removing 57in
F60S I would be removing 14in
will all holes for fuel tank brakets and every other hole be still staped into the
two chassis

[Grant Bowker]

Originally Posted by Tony Wheeler

No need Grant, I have 3 FGT chassis and 4 F15A chassis in my backyard, and I've spent innumerable hours poring over them looking for differences! All I can find on the siderails is an extra set of holes for the fuel tank brackets, which on forensic examination prove to be drilled rather than stamped, with lines scored from the adjacent stamped hole set for accurate measurement. Evidently this was necessary to fit the running boards unique to Australian pattern FGTs.

All other differences relate to additional and/or relocated crossmembers and fishplates, which I've catalogued in post #39 here:

http://www.mapleleafup.net/forums/sh...?t=1929&page=2


I wonder if the two different siderail prefixes arise from early parts before the alternative rivet holes were included to simplify production. Also of course there are differences between Cab 12 and Cab 13 side rails, and in the case of Cab 12 chassis I believe the FAT preceded the F15A in development.

My comments were taken from the Canadian parts books F15A-01, FGT-01 and F15-01 so may not totally apply to the Australian FGT. If the Austalian frame is different to the Canadian FGT, did Ford ever do the frame rail stamping for the FGT or other CMPs locally or were the frames one of the parts that were imported for "local assembly"? If it was "local assembly, I've no idea whether Ford Australia would have been modifying the Canadian F15A frame (that would, of course, make for almost identical frames F15A to FGT) or the Canadian FGT frame.

[Tony Wheeler]

Originally Posted by Grant Bowker

If the Austalian frame is different to the Canadian FGT

No there's no difference in the frame, they were shipped fully assembled. The only difference between the Canadian and Australian FGT chassis is the axles and steering gear, as the 6" steering ends and 400 steering box weren't shipped here until '44, by which time FGT production had ceased. Same goes for pre '44 F60L and F60S chassis in Australia. Not sure why we didn't get the heavy duty components earlier.

The way it worked for local pattern bodies is they were designed around the Canadian chassis as received. Interestingly we've found what we believe is the first FGT chassis received in Australia, ordered specifically for that purpose. It's a very early FGT chassis with the Chev diffs and a roofless Cab 11. I believe the present owner is planning a repro FAT body eventually, thus fulfilling it's intended purpose somewhat belatedly!